Qantas rolls out Classic Plus Flight Rewards

[SYD]

Consider that near-unlimited points are warehoused in US banks via credit cards, and people with money and points will pay people to find seats for them.

I'm sure business is booming for folks like Steve Hui at iFlyFlat.
In fact - I don't know why QF and other airlines don't team up with him.

Most people can't find seats because the competition to find those seats has exponentially increased.
The rules of the game have changed... but the way people search for flights has not.

Yes, I do wonder how many QF CR seats get snaffled by the savvy using EF, seats.aero alerts etc but they’re individuals. Are there BOTs just harvesting seats for resale to the unsuspecting? I doubt it’s that far gone and QF just stopped releasing seats like they used to (reason being, there are premium cabin seats out there - despite what others believe - just not in a pattern of old).

 

[flyguy77]

Yes, I do wonder how many QF CR seats get snaffled by the savvy

My personal viewpoint.

Everyone is complaining about Qantas but i'd say a more major change worldwide the past 5 years or so is more around the increased number of people collecting points and more specifically the sharing of information & knowledge online (not just AFF but thousands of other places worldwide)

This has made the whole industry more competitive and airlines are struggling with how to manage this massive demand for highly sought after award seats.

You have major websites, media and social media bloggers telling everyone how to book rewards, what routes to search, how to find seats, tools to find seats (which is the biggest problem), what the sweet spots are etc

AFF & Pointhacks themselves are examples of this - now taken over by millionaire owners who, no different to Qantas, obviously have a goal of making more profits (more 'clicks') and promoting all of this 'hacking' content to a bigger and bigger audience.

Then there are Facebook/Reddit groups with literally millions of members all sharing and re-sharing the content/knowledge but also fighting with each other for a tiny, tiny, tiny handful of Business Award seats...

I feel people are now pretty much aware of how they should be using points - and it's not toasters!

And then of course add points brokers, booking services & bots etc to the mix.

Is it really a surprise that we've kinda reached a breaking point and any desirable reward seats get snapped up instantly whereas in the distant past they would sit there for days/weeks/months as the majority of people didn't really know what to do or put the time into learning from the more 'underground' forums and searching for themselves.

With reward seats - every new member and person you help becomes your competition and all this info sharing just moves us toward the inevitable end-game for 'point hacking' as we know it.

Things are going to get worse not better.

 

[I love to travel]

I would really like to know wh

An opposing viewpoint.

Everyone is complaining about Qantas but i'd say a more major change worldwide the past 5 years is more around the increased number of people collecting points and more particularly the sharing of information & knowledge online (not just AFF but thousands of other places worldwide) which has made the whole reward seat industry more competitive and airlines are struggling with how to manage this massive demand for highly sought after award seats.

When you have major websites, media and social media bloggers telling everyone how to book rewards, what routes to search, how to find seats, tools to find seats (which is the biggest problem), what the sweet spots are etc

Then there are Facebook/Reddit groups with literally millions of members all sharing and re-sharing the content/knowledge but also fighting with each other for a tiny, tiny, tiny handful of Business Award seats...

I feel people are now pretty much aware of how they should be using points - and it's not toasters!

And then of course add points brokers, booking services & bots etc to the mix.

Is it really a surprise that we've kinda reached a breaking point and any desirable reward seats get snapped up instantly whereas in the distant past they would sit there for days/weeks/months as the majority of people didn't really know what to do or put the time into learning from the more 'underground' forums and searching for themselves.

With reward seats - every new member and person you help becomes your competition and all this info sharing just moves us toward the inevitable end-game for 'point hacking' as we know it.

Things are going to get worse not better.

I would really like to know what underground forums there are and more to the point how they can magically make classic awards available

 

[CaptJCool]

So I’m still back to the coffee analogy
You promised me if I spent $x on 5 coffees then the next one is free…

But apparently QF went bankrupt because the free seats were underpriced - revenue < cost and any business spending more than they earn they wouldn’t couldn’t “afford” to honour their part of the deal.

BS At its finest because let’s face it. They do prattle on about their 20% profit margin and aspiration of $1 billion profit from loyalty (even if internally loyalty underpays for its allocation of seats) let’s face it it they can sell standby seats to staff and family for 10% they can make all of us “part of the family”

However, if CR + Is a recasting and more honest assessment of what it takes to deliver the freebie then it’s the case of

“No such thing as a free lunch”

 

[flyguy77]

I would really like to know wh

I would really like to know what underground forums there are and more to the point how they can magically make classic awards available

I don't think there are really any 'underground' forums in 2024!

A US based points travel reddit - as an example has over 460 000 members.

Any 'good' info which is shared in places like this is snapped up by 1000's of American Bloggers who then promote it to their own audiences.

 

[elanshin]

I don't think there are really any 'underground' forums in 2024!

A US based points travel reddit - as an example has over 460 000 members.

Any 'good' info which is shared in places like this is snapped up by 1000's of American Bloggers who then promote it to their own audiences.

The more commonly known things are being peddled everywhere, but there are definitely some knowledge and tricks that are still being hidden and have unspoken rules even here on AFF.

That being said, a lot of the QFF points redemption has been figured out and widely peddled now.

Probably still some nuggets of information aren't as common especially around OWA, but in general QFF would be relatively figured out for points redemption.

 

[SYD]

An opposing viewpoint.

Everyone is complaining about Qantas but i'd say a more major change worldwide the past 5 years or so is more around the increased number of people collecting points and more specifically the sharing of information & knowledge online (not just AFF but thousands of other places worldwide)

This has made the whole industry more competitive and airlines are struggling with how to manage this massive demand for highly sought after award seats.

You have major websites, media and social media bloggers telling everyone how to book rewards, what routes to search, how to find seats, tools to find seats (which is the biggest problem), what the sweet spots are etc

AFF & Pointhacks themselves are examples of this - taken over by millionaire owners who, no different to Qantas, obviously have a goal of making more profits (more 'clicks') and promoting all of this 'hacking' content to a bigger and bigger audience.

Then there are Facebook/Reddit groups with literally millions of members all sharing and re-sharing the content/knowledge but also fighting with each other for a tiny, tiny, tiny handful of Business Award seats...

I feel people are now pretty much aware of how they should be using points - and it's not toasters!

And then of course add points brokers, booking services & bots etc to the mix.

Is it really a surprise that we've kinda reached a breaking point and any desirable reward seats get snapped up instantly whereas in the distant past they would sit there for days/weeks/months as the majority of people didn't really know what to do or put the time into learning from the more 'underground' forums and searching for themselves.

With reward seats - every new member and person you help becomes your competition and all this info sharing just moves us toward the inevitable end-game for 'point hacking' as we know it.

Things are going to get worse not better.

Actually, that was the gist of my earlier comment. More and more savvy points collectors using online tools to alert and book flights. Compared to the very old days of calling up to see what was available.

The real issue with QF, reported numerous times is CR seats just aren’t being released in the same predictable way as they were pre-C.

Yes, even if they were back to the old release pattern there are more and more people competing for those limited seats.

 

[MelbFlyer]

Everyone is complaining about Qantas but i'd say a more major change worldwide the past 5 years or so is more around the increased number of people collecting points and more specifically the sharing of information & knowledge online (not just AFF but thousands of other places worldwide)

You have major websites, media and social media bloggers telling everyone how to book rewards, what routes to search, how to find seats, tools to find seats (which is the biggest problem), what the sweet spots are etc

Then there are Facebook/Reddit groups with literally millions of members all sharing and re-sharing the content/knowledge but also fighting with each other for a tiny, tiny, tiny handful of Business Award seats...

Definitely true - there's much more knowledge out there now about awards points / credit card churning etc since when I got onboard the points train in 2018.

The only regret I have is that I didn't start it earlier - at the time and even still now I'm not a frequent traveller, so I thought "Whats the point in signing up for a QFF account?".

A month or so ago as well, Qantas were heavily advertising on TV Qantas points earning cards - I'm sure that got a lot of people interested in signing up for cards that come with sign-up bonuses after a minimum spend.

With reward seats - every new member and person you help becomes your competition and all this info sharing just moves us toward the inevitable end-game for 'point hacking' as we know it.

This too - I've shared the knowledge with a few friends / workmates the CC churning game and they're now onboard / have redeemed some business reward seats for themselves too.

They're also kicking themselves that they didn't start earlier too.

Things are going to get worse not better.

Definitely, and Qantas are milking all of us.

In a way Classic+ may be good as it will slowly diminish the amount of QFF points in circulation out there - especially for people who want to / only can travel during peak periods but were previously unable to find any award seats due to said peak periods.

 

[kamchatsky]

Actually, that was the gist of my earlier comment. More and more savvy points collectors using online tools to alert and book flights. Compared to the very old days of calling up to see what was available.

The real issue with QF, reported numerous times is CR seats just aren’t being released in the same predictable way as they were pre-C.

Yes, even if they were back to the old release pattern there are more and more people competing for those limited seats.

That's because QF are withholding the CRs for mass release on some dates in the future to produce regular media frenzies. It is just not news/Instagram/Tiktok/X/FB worthy to have a steady stream of Premium CRs being released.

So right now I am saving QFF points for potential mass release to Europe. I actually thought about using QFF points for their mass release to USA a couple of weeks ago but decided against it.

 

[siri]

Still I believe qantas ff is lipstick on a pig… I requested from Singapore Air status match to my qantas life gold and after 2 months they have given me gold status free till April 2025… Iam writing this from Colombo and time will tell qantas can be trusted again… Just flown to Colombo on Singapore air..

 

[Valdek]

An opposing viewpoint.

Everyone is complaining about Qantas but i'd say a more major change worldwide the past 5 years or so is more around the increased number of people collecting points and more specifically the sharing of information & knowledge online (not just AFF but thousands of other places worldwide)

This has made the whole industry more competitive and airlines are struggling with how to manage this massive demand for highly sought after award seats.

You have major websites, media and social media bloggers telling everyone how to book rewards, what routes to search, how to find seats, tools to find seats (which is the biggest problem), what the sweet spots are etc

AFF & Pointhacks themselves are examples of this - now taken over by millionaire owners who, no different to Qantas, obviously have a goal of making more profits (more 'clicks') and promoting all of this 'hacking' content to a bigger and bigger audience.

Then there are Facebook/Reddit groups with literally millions of members all sharing and re-sharing the content/knowledge but also fighting with each other for a tiny, tiny, tiny handful of Business Award seats...

I feel people are now pretty much aware of how they should be using points - and it's not toasters!

And then of course add points brokers, booking services & bots etc to the mix.

Is it really a surprise that we've kinda reached a breaking point and any desirable reward seats get snapped up instantly whereas in the distant past they would sit there for days/weeks/months as the majority of people didn't really know what to do or put the time into learning from the more 'underground' forums and searching for themselves.

With reward seats - every new member and person you help becomes your competition and all this info sharing just moves us toward the inevitable end-game for 'point hacking' as we know it.

Things are going to get worse not better.

It is true that all frequent flyer programs are today different in size, popularity, and demand from the early days of their existence, but I would add one more, but probably quite important detail to this.
The points with which we try to pay for airline tickets today have been ALREADY SOLD by the airline to which the frequent flyer program belongs.
SOLD FOR CASH to banks, supermarkets, and the like.
Each airline has voluntarily decided to sell a certain number of seats. Sell them for an agreed price. Seats that they are now unwilling or unable to provide.
Thus, the main reason is not an over-interest on the part of travellers, but the very essence of a miscalculation on the part of the airline that has been paid in advance and continued to sell seats on its planes that did not exist.
Each airline had full control over the number of miles sold and their presence on the market.
They were also aware that customers who had already paid would one day come forward to collect the service they had paid for.
Could it not have been foreseen that more seats/flights would have to be provided for already sold and paid for services? Especially when the problem had been becoming more and more obvious for a long time?

 

[elanshin]

It is true that all frequent flyer programs are today different in size, popularity, and demand from the early days of their existence, but I would add one more, but probably quite important detail to this.
The points with which we try to pay for airline tickets today have been ALREADY SOLD by the airline to which the frequent flyer program belongs.
SOLD FOR CASH to banks, supermarkets, and the like.
Each airline has voluntarily decided to sell a certain number of seats. Sell them for an agreed price. Seats that they are now unwilling or unable to provide.
Thus, the main reason is not an over-interest on the part of travellers, but the very essence of a miscalculation on the part of the airline that has been paid in advance.
Each airline had full control over the number of miles sold and their presence in the market.
They were also aware that customers who had already paid would one day come forward to collect the service they had paid for.
Could it not have been foreseen that more seats and flights would have to be provided for already sold and paid for services? Especially when the problem had been becoming more and more obvious for a long time?

No not necessarily. As with all gift vouchers and cash equivalents, not every point sold is expected to be redeemed. Lets say 99% will be redeemed. That 1% may seem small but could represent Millions of dollars.

There's also lots of other ways to redeem the points granted not the best value - but hey someone might pay 500k points for Premium economy seats in their living room.

I also remember seeing the trip a deal promotion which actually would be better value redemption than C+ (assuming original trips were price competitive). I think the value there was 2c per point for tours during that deal.

Also this is two different branches of the airline that are effectively at odds with each other. Loyalty likely wants more seats released (so they can keep peddling their marketing and keep everyone happy), but the actual QF yield management team for the flights most certainly do not as they're not making as much on their department.

Finally, I've mentioned a few times in the past, they will always sell as many points as they can simply because it also represents a form of interest free loan. Ask any major corporation if they would like to be able to print interest free loans which they can alter the value of and see how fast they would jump onboard.

 

[flyguy77]

Thus, the main reason is not an over-interest on the part of travellers, but the very essence of a miscalculation on the part of the airline that has been paid in advance and continued to sell seats on its planes that did not exist.

I don't think anyone (including the airline) gives a guarantee you can book the reward seats you want - they just market it in an aspirational....cough cough....dishonest....way, Pointhacks etc does exactly the same.

Image a more honest headline - 'You too can be one of the lucky 0.001% of Qantas Point Collectors to fly First Class to London using points!'

There are of course numerous other ways to use points (at poor value) and/or reward seats available on domestic flights etc.

But I agree airlines should have realised this moment would come.... it just comes down to money.

 

[elanshin]

Get the cash in first, figure out how to please the customers later.
What are you going to do if you're not happy, not redeem the points? (QF would love that).

When the tide starts turning, add some sweetners and a new marketing campaign with a new spiel for a new target audience.
This C+ is the "sweetner". But it's not for the old crowd, it's for all the new mums and dads that are asking about p+p. Also QF can maniputlate this from time to time as well with sales and promotions. Seeing a low peak for flights to Bangkok? C+ sale (x% off or a points rebate when you book). You'd probably get a few more bites.

 

[SeatBackForward]

But I agree airlines should have realised this moment would come.... it just comes down to money

Only because they turned their frequent flyer loyalty programs into things other than...a loyalty program for frequent flyers.

 

[33kft]

Only because they turned their frequent flyer loyalty programs into things other than...a loyalty program for frequent flyers.

They already have this, it's called status. No airline is looking to only build loyalty with their most frequent flyers, there's not enough of them to consistently fill planes, and most of them are probably locked in to regular travel by circumstance and incumbency carries weight especially where status is involved. If this was even remotely the sole point of the program, you wouldn't have Points Club and it definitely wouldn't have such low of a cap on points from flights for qualification.

If you look at it from the perspective of using the loyalty program to drive more frequent activity from participants, it makes more sense. You have people invested in your brand through the acquisition of points. There's the sunk cost fallacy that tells people that if I keep transacting with QF & its partners, I will retain & grow my point balance and at some point have enough to redeem for a free flight. It primarily increases the engagement of non-frequent flyers and makes QF a profit regardless.

That people are putting any stock in the name of the program is the problem. The point earn component of the program no more a frequent flyer rewards program than Flybuys is.

 

[SeatBackForward]

That people are putting any stock in the name of the program is the problem. The point earn component of the program no more a frequent flyer rewards program than Flybuys is.

That you can earn points and redeem points without even stepping foot near their core service (airlines) is my point. Why not just have Qantas Credit?

 

[OATEK]

An opposing viewpoint.

Everyone is complaining about Qantas but i'd say a more major change worldwide the past 5 years or so is more around the increased number of people collecting points and more specifically the sharing of information & knowledge online (not just AFF but thousands of other places worldwide)

This has made the whole industry more competitive and airlines are struggling with how to manage this massive demand for highly sought after award seats.

You have major websites, media and social media bloggers telling everyone how to book rewards, what routes to search, how to find seats, tools to find seats (which is the biggest problem), what the sweet spots are etc

AFF & Pointhacks themselves are examples of this - now taken over by millionaire owners who, no different to Qantas, obviously have a goal of making more profits (more 'clicks') and promoting all of this 'hacking' content to a bigger and bigger audience.

Then there are Facebook/Reddit groups with literally millions of members all sharing and re-sharing the content/knowledge but also fighting with each other for a tiny, tiny, tiny handful of Business Award seats...

I feel people are now pretty much aware of how they should be using points - and it's not toasters!

And then of course add points brokers, booking services & bots etc to the mix.

Is it really a surprise that we've kinda reached a breaking point and any desirable reward seats get snapped up instantly whereas in the distant past they would sit there for days/weeks/months as the majority of people didn't really know what to do or put the time into learning from the more 'underground' forums and searching for themselves.

With reward seats - every new member and person you help becomes your competition and all this info sharing just moves us toward the inevitable end-game for 'point hacking' as we know it.

Things are going to get worse not better.

All very valid points.

 

[elanshin]

That you can earn points and redeem points without even stepping foot near their core service (airlines) is my point. Why not just have Qantas Credit?

This is credit, but without regulatory oversight. QF controls everything here all in the form of alternative currency.

If you call it actually credit or anything near that word or currency, there's going to be a lot of regulatory involvement which QF definitely does not want.

Also the carrot from the whole flying in luxury for cheap $$ cash is a big marketing engine.

 

[33kft]

That you can earn points and redeem points without even stepping foot near their core service (airlines) is my point. Why not just have Qantas Credit?

Why would they - the majority of airline FF points programs work the same way. The only real difference program to program is the effective value of the points, and the allocation of reward vs revenue seats.