Qantas rolls out Classic Plus Flight Rewards

[serfty]

It's a new program, and will take time for people to adapt to.

In my case, any adaptation would be to learn how to avoid Classic+

I have basically stopped searching on Qantas.com for awards. I use tools like expertflyer to research award fare bucket availability.

 

[Daver6]

In my case, any adaptation would be to learn how to avoid Classic+

I have basically stopped searching on Qantas.com for awards. I use tools like expertflyer to research award fare bucket availability.

Problem with that approach is there can be CR available that EF doesn't show I've personally seen flights where EF had U0 yet qantas.com has availability to book as a WP.

 

[DC3]

… I've personally seen flights where EF had U0 yet qantas.com has availability to book as a WP.

…. and not phantom availability showing on QF? Phantom has been an outright pain.

 

[serfty]

…. and not phantom availability showing on QF? Phantom has been an outright pain.

@Daver6 is correct re sometime extra availability for QFF members. Moreover generally returned result on Qantas.com for QF*QF are not phantom.

Still, I'm looking at writing a script to remove Classic+ options from my QF searches ... this is part of my adaptation.

 

[Daver6]

…. and not phantom availability showing on QF? Phantom has been an outright pain.

I'm not aware of phantom availability being an issue for QF metal. Rather an issue for flights on alliance partners.

 

[Gremlin]

Ahh you're back, nice to see you again.

It is always good to look at things objectively, so very happy to discuss the evidence.

Keep picking those cherries.

Most of your points have nothing to do with CR+, but instead with the Loyalty program as a whole.

Yes. Customers engage with the program as a whole. Some engage with CR+ and some don't. It's one of the few things QFF has done significantly differently this year and is making its contribution to the outperformance Loyalty has experienced this year.

• Operating margin is down for the fifth successive year in a row: FY24 Report, 10

Yep. Completely true. Margin expanded significantly for Loyalty when COVID hit and has declined in the five years since. However, EBITDA has done the following:

FY20 - $390m
FY21 - $333m
FY22 - $351m
FY23 - $451m
FY24 - $511m

It's done that despite contracting margins because of growth in membership, increased multi-product penetration (including products that are NATURALLY going to have lower margin) and increased margin per customer. In three years they've gone from extracting around $24.50 profit per member to more than $31 profit per member. At the same time, their membership base has grown ~6.5% per annum, against population growth of 1.2% (system growth).

• Points redemptions continue to fall compared to points acquisitions. Points earned growth was 15% YOY while points redeemed growth was 10% YOY: FY24 Report, 10. This is a particularly damning statistic as one would expect points redemptions to grow with this fantastic new redemption opportunity.

Redemptions are not falling. They are simply not growing as fast as earning, which in and of itself is hardly damning. It's only an issue if engagement, membership and profit are sliding, none of which are true. If customers are accelerating their earn whilst accelerating their burn, just not as quickly, all whilst continuing to engage with the program, then it's a source of profit since their eventual redemptions will be devalued compared to today as the program continues to evolve.

• Qantas' market guidance on member acquisition, points earning & points growth are all lower than current rates: FY24 Supplementary Presentation, 28.

Yep. To be expected. Not sure why you'd think it'd be otherwise, especially if you understand WHY their current metrics have accelerated of late.


You seem disillusioned about a perceived devaluation of rewards, especially driven by CR+. With both profit and growth in line with what Loyalty is achieving (and forecasting), you will NEVER see an improved valuation of rewards. Almost certainly more devaluations will be on the way. It'll only potentially change if that profit and growth starts to stagnate. You might not like it, but that's the way it is.

 

[jase05]

Still, I'm looking at writing a script to remove Classic+ options from my QF searches ... this is part of my adaptation.

Can you get it to remove JQ whilst you are at it

 

[CaptJCool]

The discussion above has been interesting

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finallylearn.com

For Qantas the bank always wins
What with the RRIA from this program, it’s all tax-free until the points are redeemed AND THE GOODS DELIVERED Or Flights flown and look at how long it takes to use the points. For many this results in them stuck in the “may as well use them on something (desperate times means a new toaster)

What Is the Sunk Cost Fallacy? | Definition & Examples

The sunk cost fallacy is the tendency for people to continue an endeavor or course of action even when abandoning it would be more beneficial. Because we

www.scribbr.com

After all, the declared profit margin is just over 20% and growing… how good is a one way tic to a loyalty program

 

[levelnine]

Keep picking those cherries.

Most of your post is just cherry picked data. See, a very easy accusation to throw around. Also, some basic miscomprehension, but that's to be expected.

But something jumped out at me that I have to seek clarification on.

In your posts, you go on and on and on and on and on and on about Qantas Loyalty's 'outperformance' against the 'system'.

Then you say 'their membership base has grown ~6.5% per annum, against population growth of 1.2% (system growth).'

Are you actually making assessments of Qantas Loyalty's supposed 'outperformance' in terms of membership/revenue/etc compared to other loyalty programs against the population of Australia?

 

[DC3]

I'm not aware of phantom availability being an issue for QF metal. Rather an issue for flights on alliance partners.

Just to clarify what I meant. Yes, my wording was a bit off. I should have referred to the QF site, rather than just saying QF. Not specifically QF flights.

 

[SCM]

CR+ was only running for a quarter of FY24.
It's a new program, and will take time for people to adapt to.
I agree with the earlier point that we should take a medium-term (2-5 year) perspective.
I am optimistic about it based on the early signs.

Adapt to being fleeced? What are you on about?

 

[AFF Editor]

Qantas launched Classic Plus redemptions on domestic routes today.

Qantas Launches Classic Plus Rewards on Domestic Routes

Qantas Frequent Flyer has expanded Classic Plus Rewards onto domestic routes, after launching them on international flights earlier this year.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[opusman]

Qantas launched Classic Plus redemptions on domestic routes today.

Seems they have a bit of work to do on it; e.g. on ADL-MEL for the coming month, the calendar shows Classic+ available almost every day but going through to booking and nothing's available at all.

 

[Berlin]

Oh no- bad news! Easily available Domestic J redemptions was one of the few last bright spots in Qantas’ frequent flyer program.

And we all know that they are lying because the same happened with these stupid “Classic Plus” rewards on international routes: OF COURSE the whole point is to reduce the amount of proper award seats while pretending there’s plenty of “great value” rewards plus seats available.

And the worst- I fear that a lot of less experienced, gullible point collectors don’t even realise that they’re being scammed.

 

[SYD]

Coincidently a months worth of QFi CR J seats loaded at the same time (on selected routes). I’d been waiting for a particular flight in Nov 25 and it finally opened. Booked 2x J. Now to get something home in Dec 25 (which could be harder!).

 

[RooFlyer]

OF COURSE the whole point is to reduce the amount of proper award seats while pretending there’s plenty of “great value” rewards plus seats available.

It’s just ‘simpler and fairer’ (TM)

 

[Catweazle]

Should we have seen this coming? I mean, it gets easier and easier to earn points, but harder and harder to find rewards.

 

[sudoer]

I mean, it gets easier and easier to earn points

Perhaps I am missing something - but QFF SUBs are decreasing, exclusion periods are getting longer, earn rates from card spend are falling or having monthly/annual caps introduced, annual fee increases are outpacing inflation, and card surcharges are becoming more commonplace.

From my perspective, it's getting both harder and more expensive to accumulate significant amounts of QFF points compared with any point in the last 10 years - although it is still worthwhile pursuing.

Would love to hear what makes you think it is becoming easier?

 

[33kft]

Would love to hear what makes you think it is becoming easier?

Over the past 2 years, QF wine has probably contributed 300-400K of points annually for me and I've stopped card churning because of it. This is pretty much entirely thanks to Flightformula doing all the hard work for me.

I spend a bit more on that than I did card fees, but I get wine from it and I use my PCP 10% off and $50 wine vouchers so I am quite comfortable with the price to value ratio.

The rest of mine comes from QFF AMEX Ultimate which has started capping out the 1.25ppd rate to 1.00ppd at 100K points earned, but 1ppd matches many other cards and no limit applies after there. The last decent earner is everyday rewards, esp from the gift card promos.

One other area that I have found easier of late is the Qantas Marketplace 3ppd on gift cards. Not super exciting as a headline, but for stuff like WISH gift cards, Doordash, Uber etc I have now conditioned myself to always buy via GCs via the marketplace prior to shopping, because not only do I get 3ppd on groceries from the gift card, I earn 2.25 ppd on QF marketplace spend on the AMEX even after you hit the 100K cap on that as well so instead of getting 1 ppd for Woolworths spend I'm getting 5.25, plus earning EDR points which then convert back to QFF.

I am actually finding it easier than ever, but do agree with the points above that some avenues have reduced.

 

[Flyerwin]

One other area that I have found easier of late is the Qantas Marketplace 3ppd on gift cards. Not super exciting as a headline, but for stuff like WISH gift cards, Doordash, Uber etc I have now conditioned myself to always buy via GCs via the marketplace prior to shopping, because not only do I get 3ppd on groceries from the gift card, I earn 2.25 ppd on QF marketplace spend on the AMEX even after you hit the 100K cap on that as well so instead of getting 1 ppd for Woolworths spend I'm getting 5.25, plus earning EDR points which then convert back to QFF.

Respect. You math well and put in the effort.