Qantas to Introduce Group Boarding and Bag Tracking

[RichardMEL]

Interesting that US guidelines say kids under 2, because when they announce early boarding for people with kids here in Australia I frequently see people with older kids 9 & 10 and even teens rush forward. It is a joke.

Yes, I've seen this too. I will say that having signposted pre board groups like this with clear deliniation makes it much clearer.

Then there's that old catch all of "People who need extra time getting onto the aircraft" ..... which is kind of like a definition of people with disabilities. I mean technically I could probably claim that myself, but I don't because I'm able bodied and all, but there are those who will push that line too.

Then there's the well known concept in the US of "Miracle Flights" to Florida where a lot of seniors will require wheelchairs (and thus early board) on flights to Florida.. but during the flights make an amazing recovery and are able to walk off the plane unassisted .... funny that. I'm sure a few of those happen to places like OOL too.

but I digress...

 

[TheInsider]

At the end of the day if they want less delays then don't schedule 55 min turns in cities like Sydney or Melbourne which seem to change runway or operations every 20 seconds. The published arrival/departure times are meant to be the wheels up/down time, this means in the 55 minutes from when the plane hits the runway it's got to taxi (can easily be 10 mins in SYD), connect bridge/stairs, boot self loading cargo off, sometime re-cater, pretend to clean, load new self loading freight and then taxi back out for takeoff.

Tbf it can actually be 35 minutes, and it does work if everyone does what they need to do.

 

[henrus]

Tbf it can actually be 35 minutes, and it does work if everyone does what they need to do.

So 35 mins from wheels down to wheels up?

I'd love to know what taxi time is built into this (if any - assuming the 35 mins is the industry standard wheels down to up) any then what the further breakdown looks like. Deplaning/boarding typically takes 20-30 minutes which doesn't leave much wiggle room so no wonder OTP is cough.

You could teleport people onto the plane but if there is still 20 mins taxi time on a turn required or a 5th in queue on departure because of winds then you're out of luck.

 

[henrus]

Interesting that US guidelines say kids under 2, because when they announce early boarding for people with kids here in Australia I frequently see people with older kids 9 & 10 and even teens rush forward. It is a joke.

I think I've shared this before but "all children travelling with small parents"

 

[TheInsider]

So 35 mins from wheels down to wheels up?

I'd love to know what taxi time is built into this (if any - assuming the 35 mins is the industry standard wheels down to up) any then what the further breakdown looks like. Deplaning/boarding typically takes 20-30 minutes which doesn't leave much wiggle room so no wonder OTP is cough.

You could teleport people onto the plane but if there is still 20 mins taxi time on a turn required or a 5th in queue on departure because of winds then you're out of luck.

The industry standard is not wheels up to wheels down, it's off block time and on block time. ATC slot times are about when the a/c actually leaves the gate and if they are compliant or non-compliant with the slots.
Disembarking and boarding does not take anywhere near 30 minutes for the B737 (35 min turn), A330 (45min turn) and B717 fleet QF have.
The standard for QF is board at -22 minutes and then door closed at -3, with pushback at -0.

 

[justinbrett]

So 35 mins from wheels down to wheels up?

I'd love to know what taxi time is built into this (if any - assuming the 35 mins is the industry standard wheels down to up) any then what the further breakdown looks like. Deplaning/boarding typically takes 20-30 minutes which doesn't leave much wiggle room so no wonder OTP is cough.

You could teleport people onto the plane but if there is still 20 mins taxi time on a turn required or a 5th in queue on departure because of winds then you're out of luck.

Of course not. It’s about 35 minutes from wheels down to gate, then gate to wheels up. Note that scheduled times are gate to gate, not wheels up to wheels down.

 

[justinbrett]

Silver/Club boarding is a bit of a stretch?

Why shouldn't they get priority, as long as it's after SGs.

AA gives it to OWR (Group 4).

 

[tdimdad]

Group 1:J/WP/P1 (give P1s pre-board if we must, but might be going too far)
Group 2 :SG

I guess the issue is SGs who wouldn't take kindly to being sent to the back of the queue.

As an SG, I'd be OK with the higher levels going first. And this is what happens with many other carriers already.

Firstly, if someone has earnt their high status through frequent flying, it's only fair that whatever makes their trip smooth and comfortable is available to them before me. Secondly, if I want the same, the system allows me to put more time and/or money into my flying to build more status. Simple as that.

 

[RichardMEL]

For mine, the biggest concern here is not what system is used, or who is in what group/zone, but the longstanding issues of QF's ability and/or desire to actually manage it consistently (yeah, I used that word - you knew it was coming ). I mean look at the various threads already about priority boarding(or lack therof). Ground agents and FA's managing boarding need to be on board with the process or it will be a shambles like it currently is.

No doubt, it will be confusing as they roil it out for customers and staff, and OK that's acceptable, but the key is to be consistent and clear as they implement it. We know other carriers, including VA, are good at this, and of course over time pax are more used to the setup.. but if it's not managed properly then the whole thing can just fall apart.

And honestly, this is my biggest concern with this change.

And given current apparent staff morale and varying levels of engagement from staff groups, the desire to make this work may be... mixed.

time will tell of course.

 

[Berlin]

For mine, the biggest concern here is not what system is used, or who is in what group/zone, but the longstanding issues of QF's ability and/or desire to actually manage it consistently (yeah, I used that word - you knew it was coming ). I mean look at the various threads already about priority boarding(or lack therof). Ground agents and FA's managing boarding need to be on board with the process or it will be a shambles like it currently is.

No doubt, it will be confusing as they roil it out for customers and staff, and OK that's acceptable, but the key is to be consistent and clear as they implement it. We know other carriers, including VA, are good at this, and of course over time pax are more used to the setup.. but if it's not managed properly then the whole thing can just fall apart.

And honestly, this is my biggest concern with this change.

And given current apparent staff morale and varying levels of engagement from staff groups, the desire to make this work may be... mixed.

time will tell of course.

Couldn’t have said it any better- this is exactly the real issue here and nothing will change until staff training/attitude/whatever it is changes.

One idea that might take staff out of the equation altogether- just came back from Europe and some airlines simply let the machine (i.e. bar code scanners) do the boarding together with an automated gate that only lets one passenger through at a time. And if you’re in group 3 but it’s only boarding for groups 1 and 2, then the computer says nooooo (und you attract the scorn of other passengers who actually are ahead of you). Would clearly be a mess at first but people seem to have gotten used to it at Finnair or Lufthansa, for example.

 

[Beano]

Couldn’t have said it any better- this is exactly the real issue here and nothing will change until staff training/attitude/whatever it is changes.

One idea that might take staff out of the equation altogether- just came back from Europe and some airlines simply let the machine (i.e. bar code scanners) do the boarding together with an automated gate that only lets one passenger through at a time. And if you’re in group 3 but it’s only boarding for groups 1 and 2, then the computer says nooooo (und you attract the scorn of other passengers who actually are ahead of you). Would clearly be a mess at first but people seem to have gotten used to it at Finnair or Lufthansa, for example.

The gates seems a good idea. I don't remember any at Frankfurt recently when flying Lufthansa.

I don't think it is common yet in Europe, certainly not T1, T4 Madrid, T1 Frankfurt nor GLA and EDI.

 

[Captain Halliday]

The gates seems a good idea. I don't remember any at Frankfurt recently when flying Lufthansa.

I don't think it is common yet in Europe, certainly not T1, T4 Madrid, T1 Frankfurt nor GLA and EDI.

LHR and HEL have them. Worked very effectively.

 

[Berlin]

LHR and HEL agave them. Worked very effectively.

Yep- HEL I’ve just been through and it worked very well indeed. MUC also has it at some gates, don’t think FRA does.

 

[tdimdad]

Yep- HEL I’ve just been through and it worked very well indeed. MUC also has it at some gates, don’t think FRA does.

You see those gates also in Sweden.

The only trick then is to device a workaround when a family / group / pair gets different boarding groups assigned but would like to board together with the highest / earliest one in the group.

I quite like what I've seen JL do often where a gate agent controls the queue and individuals & groups who go to board at any given time. Similarly, CX having a gate agent to assist people to the right queues (if needed). This allows them to accept the partner / family / group members to join you in your queue despite of their individual boarding groups. And because it's controlled by staff, other pax should have no need to raise eyebrows (as long as the staff do their job well).

In most Australian domestic airport, the agent could stand where the queue meets the concourse and check the eligibility there.

 

[Beano]

You see those gates also in Sweden.

The only trick then is to device a workaround when a family / group / pair gets different boarding groups assigned but would like to board together with the highest / earliest one in the group.

I quite like what I've seen JL do often where a gate agent controls the queue and individuals & groups who go to board at any given time. Similarly, CX having a gate agent to assist people to the right queues (if needed). This allows them to accept the partner / family / group members to join you in your queue despite of their individual boarding groups. And because it's controlled by staff, other pax should have no need to raise eyebrows (as long as the staff do their job well).

In most Australian domestic airport, the agent could stand where the queue meets the concourse and check the eligibility there.

That's an interesting point. when I fly with Mrs Beano, she has no high status so how do we borad together at a control gate? Agents will let the non-premier flyer through.

 

[dairyfloss]

For all its failings (though I've not been up there in a while), BLR does (or did) this pretty well, also, with the gate staff wandering through the queues and reorganizing folks into the correct lines as they go; well ahead of the scanners.

On the notes above, I've not seen a scanner deny boarding based on cabin or status once boarding commences, but suspect it would be a slow burn to better efficiency, as it relies on repeat offenders getting the message, and or others nearby offenders figuring out what's going wrong.

Cheers,
Matt.

 

[Beano]

For all its failings (though I've not been up there in a while), BLR does (or did) this pretty well, also, with the gate staff wandering through the queues and reorganizing folks into the correct lines as they go; well ahead of the scanners.

On the notes above, I've not seen a scanner deny boarding based on cabin or status once boarding commences, but suspect it would be a slow burn to better efficiency, as it relies on repeat offenders getting the message, and or others nearby offenders figuring out what's going wrong.

Cheers,
Matt.

Is the trick to be in the correct queue? The scanners don't distinguish?

 

[dairyfloss]

Is the trick to be in the correct queue? The scanners don't distinguish?

'Yes' to both, I think? If the former were always true, then there wouldn't have been a problem to start with

 

[milehighclub]

So the scanners will deny anyone that boards when they shouldn't. Depending on configuration of gate etc there will be either 3 lanes or 2 lanes for boarding.

 

[maia200]

Yesterday boarding AKL-BNE it was J class passengers first, then OW Status, then by rows.