Qantas to Launch SYD-AKL-JFK (June 2023)

[Melburnian1]

What I do find annoying (and maybe someone knows the answer here) is why flights to Oceania from North America seem to always arrive in the morning (and no Hawaii is not part of North America for this argument). Is there any rhyme or reason for this?

Probably a perception that high yielding passengers want to arrive in SYD or MEL at the start not the end of a business day, plus airline convenience.

Reducing the likelihood of being upset by the SYD curfew might be a third reason.

Logically I'd have thought many travellers (business and lesiure) would welcome the opportunity to collapse into an hotel (or their own) bed at night rather than the annoyance of being unable to use a hotel room until 1400 or 1500 hours if you've not booked it for 'the night before', but the airlines disagree.

 

[Princess Fiona]

It's possible flights are booked out given the relatively small seating capacity of the QFi B789, especially as configured on this long route, but try as I might for a 'ghost' booking on ITA Matrix, for a day in September 2023 when QFi operates QF3 and in October 2023 back on QF4, I couldn't get ITA Matrix to bring up this routing.

The cheapest J return fare it offered was an outrageous A$19529 on QFi, taking 25 hours 39 minutes (gotta love the accuracy!) outbound and 25'25" inbound from JFK. This used AA flight numbers AA4111, AA274 and AA185 and then old stalwart QF12. Travel was via LAX.

I assume fares on QF3/QF4 will be higher than via LAX.

OZ had a J class fare via ICN of A$7872 return respectively taking 27'30" and 28'35". NH via HND cost A$8449 and was scheduled to occupy 28' and 27'15". PR at A$8086 was 26'30" oubound but slower at 41'10" returning, allowing about 15 hours in MNL, which may suit some as it breaks a long journey. I had to tweak ITA Matrix for the latter by allowing plus or minus two days as PR may not operate MNL-JFK and return on the same days as QFi.

There were other options including KE via ICN that were substantially less expensive than overpriced QFi.

Many who have QFF points and redeem (if one can ever obtain seats), those who want to accumulate more points or have travel paid for by their company or government department/agency will travel on QFi, but if paying out of one's own pocket, why would you use this route given excellent alternatives that either only take a few hours longer in each direction, or offer the opportunity for a day's (or longer) stopover?

It's an enormous premium for not many hours' saving and arguably poorer service than on competitor airlines given how so many suggest QFi has declined. (Read the scathing letter in 'AFR' today from a gent who lives in BrisVegas: he recently travelled on A330s, admittedly a different aircraft to newer B789s).

This is a bit OT for the thread. There are a lot of ways of getting ticketed on QF3/4 that do not involve anything like the $$$ you have quoted

 

[Princess Fiona]

<Mod Hat
The topic of this thread is the QF service QF3/4 SYD-JFK

Please stick to the topic. Many other threads to discuss US / Canadian immigration points etc.


Mod Hat >

 

[exceladdict]

Many who have QFF points and redeem (if one can ever obtain seats), those who want to accumulate more points or have travel paid for by their company or government department/agency will travel on QFi, but if paying out of one's own pocket, why would you use this route given excellent alternatives that either only take a few hours longer in each direction, or offer the opportunity for a day's (or longer) stopover?

It's an enormous premium for not many hours' saving and arguably poorer service than on competitor airlines given how so many suggest QFi has declined. (Read the scathing letter in 'AFR' today from a gent who lives in BrisVegas: he recently travelled on A330s, admittedly a different aircraft to newer B789s).

I think there will be people who don't travel much but/so still trust the QF brand. Probably a bit of a market in trips in one side of the US and out the other, too. I realise this can be done with connections but seems "simpler" to less frequent travellers

Logically I'd have thought many travellers (business and lesiure) would welcome the opportunity to collapse into an hotel (or their own) bed at night rather than the annoyance of being unable to use a hotel room until 1400 or 1500 hours if you've not booked it for 'the night before', but the airlines disagree.

Agree, late afternoon is my preference, a night sleep before the meetings the next day. But then my employer won't be paying for J!

 

[dajop]

. One thing to keep in mind however is that AKL does have a curfew, meaning that if you get particularly bad weather and are severely delayed you could be sitting state-side for some time (unless of course QF is authorized to fly to CHC instead).

If QF4 is that severely delayed that it hits a curfew (or runway closure) at AKL, they'll have plenty of time to work out contingencies. QF4 arrives into AKL at 5am ..... if it's running a few hours or even 18 hrs late, that is not going to be a problem only if it is running between 20-24 hrs late will that be a problem.

 

[dajop]

Depends on what comparisons you're making. If the final destination is New York, then you'd be comparing the connection experience in AKL. However if traveling onto Miami as an example, there's also comparison on the domestic US connection in JFK vs LAX.

or DFW. I honestly think QF would prefer to sell SYD-DFW-MIA over QF3-MIA (and it would be shorter), leaving QF 3/4 for (potentially higher margin) NYC/NE bound pax.

 

[Melburnian1]

This is a bit OT for the thread. There are a lot of ways of getting ticketed on QF3/4 that do not involve anything like the $$$ you have quoted

Name them please, and provide a priced example with what month each way is for travel in. ITA Matrix is quite good.

 

[milehighclub]

One thing to keep in mind however is that AKL does have a curfew,

AKL doesn't have a curfew. Did you mean another airport?

 

[justinbrett]

or DFW. I honestly think QF would prefer to sell SYD-DFW-MIA over QF3-MIA (and it would be shorter), leaving QF 3/4 for (potentially higher margin) NYC/NE bound pax.

Also AA has moved a lot of flights from JFK to LGA. JFK is mostly a transcon and international port for them.

I don’t think QF3/4 will be suitable for a lot of connections, DFW will be much better for that.

 

[dajop]

Also AA has moved a lot of flights from JFK to LGA. JFK is mostly a transcon and international port for them.

I don’t think QF3/4 will be suitable for a lot of connections, DFW will be much better for that.

Likewise for NZ (with IAH instead of DFW) ... it's telling that they chose JFK, instead of their partners hub at EWR. This suggests connecting traffic is unimportant for their service too.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Name them please, and provide a priced example with what month each way is for travel in. ITA Matrix is quite good.

LH RTW ticket any month.
Can’t be priced on matrix sorry

 

[kangarooflyer88]

AKL doesn't have a curfew. Did you mean another airport?

Sorry, I think I meant WLG there.

 

[kpro]

Also AA has moved a lot of flights from JFK to LGA. JFK is mostly a transcon and international port for them.

Likewise for NZ (with IAH instead of DFW) ... it's telling that they chose JFK, instead of their partners hub at EWR. This suggests connecting traffic is unimportant for their service too.

I wouldn't go so far to discount JFK as a domestic hub. AA still has substantial domestic presence at JFK, discounting the B6 codeshares. I can see the following domestic destinations AA serve from JFK -
Austin, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dallas, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Nashville, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, San Francisco, Santa Ana, Vail/Eagle, Washington, Worcester.

Of course they might not be timed appropriately for QF's arrival/departure, or otherwise be backtracking in direction, but they're also not primarily West Coast cities.

I don’t think QF3/4 will be suitable for a lot of connections, DFW will be much better for that.

Agree based on backtracking and potential timing. JFK is likely better for the SC's though.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Agree based on backtracking and potential timing. JFK is likely better for the SC's though.

Not so sure on that. I mean if you want to take the most direct routing to LHR from SYD, wouldn't it make more sense to fly first to LAX, then fly onwards to DFW before continuing on to JFK and LHR versus flying SYD > AKL > JFK > LHR in terms of earning status credits (and potentially EU261 compensation?)

-RooFlyer88

 

[kpro]

Not so sure on that. I mean if you want to take the most direct routing to LHR from SYD, wouldn't it make more sense to fly first to LAX, then fly onwards to DFW before continuing on to JFK and LHR versus flying SYD > AKL > JFK > LHR in terms of earning status credits (and potentially EU261 compensation?)

I was comparing QF3/4 to QF7/8 and basing it on something US domestic and on the East Coast.

EG SYD - AKL - JFK - MIA earns 85 + 210 + 60 = 355 SC's in Business.
vs
SYD - DFW - MIA earning 210 + 60 = 270 SC's.

 

[justinbrett]

I wouldn't go so far to discount JFK as a domestic hub. AA still has substantial domestic presence at JFK, discounting the B6 codeshares. I can see the following domestic destinations AA serve from JFK -
Austin, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dallas, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Nashville, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, San Francisco, Santa Ana, Vail/Eagle, Washington, Worcester.

Of course they might not be timed appropriately for QF's arrival/departure, or otherwise be backtracking in direction, but they're also not primarily West Coast cities.


Agree based on backtracking and potential timing. JFK is likely better for the SC's though.

Well QF doesn’t codeshare with B6 so we can discount those.

You’ll find the frequency on those AA metal routes (non transcon) is very low, and only really exist for their trans Atlantic connections. AA has invested heavily in LGA.

 

[justinbrett]

I was comparing QF3/4 to QF7/8 and basing it on something US domestic and on the East Coast.

EG SYD - AKL - JFK - MIA earns 85 + 210 + 60 = 355 SC's in Business.
vs
SYD - DFW - MIA earning 210 + 60 = 270 SC's.

DFW-MIA is 80 SCs.

 

[jb747]

The return journey is just under 17 hours. One can only hope the passengers are very high yield, ‘cos there aren’t many of them. About 17 tonnes margin to MTOW, so fuel/range is not an issue.

 

[jpp42]

The return journey is just under 17 hours. One can only hope the passengers are very high yield, ‘cos there aren’t many of them. About 17 tonnes margin to MTOW, so fuel/range is not an issue.

As I posted near the start of the thread, apparently the biggest concern Qantas has is the hours of service limitations for the crew, particularly if there is a long delay out of JFK. Apparently this is seen as a likely reason for a need to divert to NAN, and why they have a 737 on standby at SYD, to ferry a relief crew to meet QF4 in Nadi. I suppose they don't have enough crews to operate QF4 with more substitute crew - or perhaps that's not even possible due to the way the regulations work? How many pilots are normally carried on these ULH routes ?

 

[Princess Fiona]

The return journey is just under 17 hours. One can only hope the passengers are very high yield, ‘cos there aren’t many of them. About 17 tonnes margin to MTOW, so fuel/range is not an issue.

J is pretty full