Qantas to operate evacuation flights from Lebanon via Cyprus to Sydney

Like it or not Australia has both an ethical and a legal obligation to assist citizens stranded overseas
The ones who live in Lebanon are not stranded - they live there ie permanent residents. Not people who live in Australia and are travelling

There are a lot of ex-pats around the world
Depends if they live abroad or if they are just on a time limited working contract abroad. However the Australian passport will always put the Govt in a political conundrum.

what I cannot understand is why Cyprus? L
That is the nearest safe harbour. They did it in 2006. Türkiye is the other.

I have known them to extend loans to facilitate services and repatriation
They tried that in 2006. Some paid others didnt. Eventually they cancelled the debts.
 
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1) I haven't seen any coverage from Australians in Lebanon saying, 'I'm an Aussie. The government should get me out.' Has that happened?

2) The Qantas release doesn't say the flights are limited to Australian citizens who reside in Lebanon, as opposed to those you are visiting (for whatever reason).

3) I'm not as familiar as I'd like to be with EC261 and the similar UK provision but I wonder if any of those come into play if the 787s being used are coming off LHR, FCO or CDG routes.
 
There are many instances where the government has not actively assisted Australians overseas one only needs to look at the Covid era.

This is the point I came here to make. The government abandoned and locked out its own citizens for two years. We’ve proven we have zero obligation to our nationals abroad (and the public generally supported that, as terrifying as it was). In this instance, we have a group of people who sadly have a lot of power in some very marginal seats. That would be a big reason for this push to bring home a few hundred “passport bingo” winners. The joys of our democracy!
 
This is obviously driven by politics. Anyone who wished to leave has been told for 12+ months to do so. The current government has an issue with a certain group of voters and needs to show that they're doing something to woo them back, especially with an election coming in the next 10 months or so.

Given pax need to make there way to Cyprus anyway, why can't they just pay their own way home from there or somewhere else in Europe? This is an absolute waste of tax payers money IMHO.
 
When this was originally published on the QF news room it was announced as operating from Beirut via Larnaca - it has since been updated to be Larnaca only.
QFs insurance likely wouldn’t cover flying into BEY and may be too high risk for the crew.

The government is chartering separate flights from BEY to Larnaca.

The optics of the government providing charter flights out of TLV and not doing the same from BEY wouldn’t be great - it’s also likely the government has intel as what may be coming within Lebanon within the next few days / weeks.
 
1) I haven't seen any coverage from Australians in Lebanon saying, 'I'm an Aussie. The government should get me out.' Has that happened?

2) The Qantas release doesn't say the flights are limited to Australian citizens who reside in Lebanon, as opposed to those you are visiting (for whatever reason).

3) I'm not as familiar as I'd like to be with EC261 and the similar UK provision but I wonder if any of those come into play if the 787s being used are coming off LHR, FCO or CDG routes.
At times the NZ govt puts passengers on AU govt fights. But less NZ citizens with a Lebanese background in NZ compared to AU-NSW.
IMHO dual Lebanese - AU citizens should not be given a free ride home. But those people will be voting.
Would not be surprised if the B787 goes out with spare seats

abc.net.au 05-10-2024 Flights to evacuate up to 500 Australians and their families from Lebanon as situation deteriorates
The Australian government will fly up to 500 people out of Lebanon today, as it continues to urge citizens to leave the country. The two charter flights will take Australian citizens, permanent residents, and their family members out of the Lebanon capital Beirut to the nearby island of Cyprus.
<snip>
The government estimates at least 15,000 Australians remain in Lebanon but the true figure could be as high as 30,000. 3,088 Australians have registered as wanting to depart, while a further 1,813 have registered to receive information from the Australian government.
<snip>
Since October 2023, the Australian government advice has been for Australians to not travel to Lebanon.
<snip>
 
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There is no explicit obligation for the Australian Gov to assist its citizens for whatever reason they require assistance overseas. The matters are deliberately grey, given you can't countenance all of the circumstances that may give rise to providing assistance.
Agreed that these are grey matters in terms of the extent that the Commonwealth should provide assistance. I agree with others that a "free ride" back to Australia is asking too much, but ensuring they have safe passage to a stable country like Cyprus or UAE for instance, would be a reasonable gesture given the circumstance. People love to point out that Lebanon is an active war zone now, and whilst that may be true, that wasn't the case 6 months ago or a year ago. One must also question the extent to which the Commonwealth has reached out to travellers who registered their travel with SmartTraveller along the way. For instance, if you were to travel to Lebanon a year ago, did the Commonwealth notify you recently saying, you should get out now whilst the going is good?

At the same time, it should be noted that matters aren't grey when it comes to consular officials in Lebanon. The government and its allies do owe them a responsibility to repatriate them safely to their country at whatever costs are necessary. Heck, Canada gave citizenship to US diplomats stuck in Iran in the 70s to ensure they could get safe passage back to America.
You mentioned the Morrison government during COVID decided not to assist stranded Australians beyond what they did with arranged charter flights and so on. That is a good example of the government utilising its discretion in these matters. That did not pass the pub test, and that government subsequently lost office. So that's the whole process, in democratic motion. On the flip side, we saw the former PM Rudd, who rode back home with Assange on a charter flight paid for by the government, which needs to be repaid by Assange or other people. .
If there is one thing I've learned about Australian values living here for a couple of years it's the principle that people deserve a ,"fair go". My understanding of "fair go," is people are given a reasonable opportunity given the circumstances to achieve what is necessary. And certainly to the extent that there is a pub test, one key determination is whether the individual got a fair go. Now again, we might disagree about whether the government should foot the bill to repatriate people stuck in this conflict zone. But wouldn't the principle of fair go mean that at least they be given an opportunity to leave a country that is in active conflict for another country that is stable? No one should be asking that they be flown first class to Sydney as the case is now, but at least give them an opportunity to escape the conflict.
They're just the company getting paid by the Aust government to do this.

Not sure what reason they would have to refuse the job?
Completely understand why Qantas did it. Great revenue and great PR for a company that has faced a lot of negative publicity over the past few years. I suppose a concern would be what impact (if any) diverting planes destined for particular routes to "rescue" Lebanese tourists will have on the route network.
I'd say when the said citizen has so imperilled themselves as to make repatriation dangerous or impossible, especially so when they have ignored urgent imperatives to leave beforehand.

If someone waits until there is a real 'hot war' in Lebanon, no government should be obliged to risk people or assets in getting them out between rockets and gunfire in the streets.
One largely unknown question, (and to be fair I haven't followed the situation in Lebanon as much as others) is how rapidly this unfolded? It's my understanding that this whole thing unfolded relatively quickly over the past 2-3 weeks with the whole pager incident. Certainly if you went to Lebanon over the winter to escape the cold Australian winter in favour of warmer climes, you could be excused for getting caught out I suppose.

-RooFlyer88
 
The optics of the government providing charter flights out of TLV and not doing the same from BEY wouldn’t be great - it’s also likely the government has intel as what may be coming within Lebanon within the next few days / weeks.

The situations were completely different though. There was no warning prior to the event. Post event there were no commercial flights out of TLV. As opposed to now there has been 12 months of don't go and leave if you're there with commercial flights available the entire time.
 
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The situations were completely different though. There was no warning prior to the event. Post event there were no commercial flights out of TLV. As opposed to now there has been 12 months of don't go and leave if you're there with commercial flights available the entire time.

That’s very true I don’t disagree - I’m sure lots of people have been complacent and up until 2 weeks ago the security situation in Lebanon wasn’t particularly unusual, but in the last two weeks it’s clearly deteriorated significantly and 1/4 of the population are now displaced with nowhere to go. No one knows what will happen next but if there is significant loss of life in Lebanon it wouldn’t be a good look if the Government didn’t assist - particularly as other nations are evacuating citizens.
 
One thing to keep in mind is SmartTraveller had a “Do Not Travel” warning as early as October 19, 2023. So I think an argument could be made here that the government gave ample warning that things could turn out disastrous for quite some time and thus their obligations to those foolhardy enough to continue travel is diminished. At the same time, an argument could be made that this was very much a case of the boy who cried wolf. They had that warning for so long that it failed to become a warning that anyone will take seriously.
 
People love to point out that Lebanon is an active war zone now, and whilst that may be true, that wasn't the case 6 months ago or a year ago.

Not an 'active war zone' now, but harbours and has been quasi-controlled a terrorist group that's been attacking land and people of a number of countries, near and far, for decades. As someone who loves to go to new countries, Lebanon has never been close to being on my list to visit.

One must also question the extent to which the Commonwealth has reached out to travellers who registered their travel with SmartTraveller along the way. For instance, if you were to travel to Lebanon a year ago, did the Commonwealth notify you recently saying, you should get out now whilst the going is good?

The Commonwealth doesn't reach out to (individual) travellers, beyond posting its advice on Smarttraveler. Up to individuals to do their own thing. Plenty of public advice to get out recently.
 
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The Commonwealth doesn't reach out to (individual) travellers, beyond posting its advice on Smarttraveler. Up to individuals to do their own thing. Plenty of public advice to get out recently.
Maybe they should. It would certainly be cheaper than them funding these repatriation flights home. Indeed countries like the U.S. offer such a service for their citizens.
 
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like Dunkirk - that will be exciting
Maybe it's just me, but I think there is a HELL of a difference between the BEF at the end of the phoney war and a bunch of private citizens who should have had the common sense to get themselves out of dodge before the taxpayer had to step in to bail them out.
 
Maybe they should. It would certainly be cheaper than them funding these repatriation flights home. Indeed countries like the U.S. offer such a service for their citizens.

You used to be able to register your destinations (by date) and contact details on Smarttraveller and they used to be able to reach you direct, say in the event of an earthquake. They stopped that about 5 years ago - a really, really bad decision, but done I guess that, with your contact details, there is then an obligation on them to get in touch. Like, yeah! 🤦‍♂️

But in the case of Lebanon currently, I doubt many of the Australian citizens living there would have registered, or even taken notice of Smarttraveller. They aren't 'travelling' (sure, a generalisation but I think reasonably true).

What system does the US use? For instance, what details of US citizens living in Australia are 'known' to the US State Dept?
 
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I also wonder what message the government paid evacuation will be giving people in a similar position in the future. Do you follow the Government’s message and pay to leave when it is first suggested, or do you wait for a free evacuation?

These people should have to pay for their evacuation. Maybe the Government should keep each person’s passport ntil the fares have been repaid?
 
The problem is not so much "tourists" but people that have family there and had to travel for various reasons. Oftentimes those are the ones caught out. Grandma very sick and on deathbed so you fly back? Or caring for sickly elder. There are myriad of reasons why people have gone back to an unstable region that looked ok many of which are absolutely legitimate and valid.
 
What system does the US use? For instance, what details of US citizens living in Australia are 'known' to the US State Dept?
I would think that the IRS knows more about American's living overseas then the US State Department, since the US has global taxation. American's have to pay tax to the IRS on income earnt outside the US. ie, American's working in Australia are paying tax to the ATO and the IRS.
 
I would think that the IRS knows more about American's living overseas then the US State Department, since the US has global taxation. American's have to pay tax to the IRS on income earnt outside the US. ie, American's working in Australia are paying tax to the ATO and the IRS.

Again, fair comment so let me re-phrase

What system does the US use? For instance, what details of US citizens living in Australia are 'known' to the US government that might contact them in the event of a crisis? ?
 

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