Qantas to operate evacuation flights from Lebanon via Cyprus to Sydney

[Sprucegoose]

Why is there a need for Qantas or any airline for that matter to provide support if DFAT

Qantas has an unwritten obligation to assist when the Government requests it.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

At least 15,000, which could increase to around 30,000 - is the best guess.

If that is the case then the 440 passengers DFAT claims these two flights will be able to pick up is hardly enough. We are likely looking at just the first tranche of flights going out to repatriate stranded Aussies. And again to reiterate, that's a lot of Aussies who will require safe passage to a third country. That task alone is going to be herculean compared to the (relative) cake walk which was the COVID repatriation. I'm unfamiliar with prior Aussie repatriation missions aside from the aforementioned COVID pandemic mission. I do wonder, however, whether they have done this type of life and limb recovery mission before where people lives are literally in harms way. It's one thing to coordinate travel for stranded Aussies at LAX or JFK (despite what some on this forum may think comparing these airports to third world joints), it's another thing coordinating this when your airport and infrastructure is getting hit by mortar and the situation is fluid, let's just say.

And I think this is something Albo and his government could use to avoid the whole question of paying for repatriation flights home. If he came on national news and said, "at this point, our mission is to get every single Aussie out of harms way. If they end up safe in Dubai or Laranca, we've done our job and that's what we should be judged by. We shouldn't be judged on whether we put up these passengers in First class on Qantas". I think this would highlight the gravity of the situation and show the type of humility he has, whilst conveniently making the repatriation to Australia bit a non-issue.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Quickstatus]

I'm unfamiliar with prior Aussie repatriation missions

2006, exactly same circumstances

If they end up safe in Dubai or Laranca we've done our job

Too late, That was the whole point of charging for flights out of Cyprus in 2006 which they subsequently cancelled the debt. Domestic political factors involved then and now.

 

[p--and--t]

, although I would be interested in understanding why these people went to Lebanon

At least 1500 wanting to get out, 1500 different circumstances, dozens of different reasons. There are something like 30,000 Aussies in Lebanon by some accounts. Only 5% asking to be helped out.

 

[markis10]

They are using A340 9H-SUN from HiFly which can take 291 pax, on probably one of the shorter flights she has ever done.

 

[Pushka]

One thing to keep in mind is SmartTraveller had a “Do Not Travel” warning as early as October 19, 2023. So I think an argument could be made here that the government gave ample warning that things could turn out disastrous for quite some time and thus their obligations to those foolhardy enough to continue travel is diminished. At the same time, an argument could be made that this was very much a case of the boy who cried wolf. They had that warning for so long that it failed to become a warning that anyone will take seriously.

Insurance companies would not have insured anyone travelling with such a notice.

Post automatically merged: Oct 6, 2024

 

[Pushka]

The problem is not so much "tourists" but people that have family there and had to travel for various reasons. Oftentimes those are the ones caught out. Grandma very sick and on deathbed so you fly back? Or caring for sickly elder. There are myriad of reasons why people have gone back to an unstable region that looked ok many of which are absolutely legitimate and valid.

They stopped travel for this reason during Covid. Stopped people even in Australia visiting sick elderly during Covid. Given the travel warnings and the now requirement to repatriate people who did travel there at their own risk but now the Government picks up the tab, then why not some kind of financial guarantee of repayment.

 

[RooFlyer]

Did you see the film

The first 'cut' of Argo vastly downplayed the role of Canadians/Canada, especially the Ambassador It was, of course all the USA's doing with a bit of help from the guys up north). I was working in Canada after the film's release and it was going down like a fart in an elevator. There was some adjusting of it subsequently.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

At least 1500 wanting to get out, 1500 different circumstances, dozens of different reasons. There are something like 30,000 Aussies in Lebanon by some accounts. Only 5% asking to be helped out.

Even if we accept that much smaller figure, there simply aren't enough repatriation flights scheduled to get people out of Larnaca, which again leads me to believe that what we are seeing is the first in a series of repatriation flights. The government has likely thought it be politically expedient to make it look like it's a one-off then, and then do another "one-off" when no ones looking.

The are using A340 9H-SUN from HiFly which can take 291 pax, on probably one of the shorter flights she has ever done.

Presumably that's the bird that will take people from Beirut to Larnaca? In which case there's going to be a lot of back and forth to get everyone rescued. And of course this plan depends on whether it remains safe to evacuate people by air in the coming days. Remember, things can deteriorate rapidly over there.

Insurance companies would not have insured anyone travelling with such a notice.

It would certainly depend on the policy. I suspect most travel insurance policies you get would explicitly exclude such incidents. However, there are policies you can buy that cover these incidents as well. Now it'll cost more than the policy you can get from Qantas' Travel Insurance, but they are out there and can be a good value. This is how foreign reporters can cover war zones

 

[LoungeAttack]

Like it or not Australia has both an ethical and a legal obligation to assist citizens stranded overseas. Now certainly an argument can be made that it is foolish to travel to a country that is in active conflict, but then the question is where do you draw the line? What about an Australian who travels to China to attend a conference only for them to be detained on national security grounds the same way the two Michaels were detained not too long ago? What about Australians who travel abroad and get their passport stolen or worse cannot return to Australia because their passport is expired or damaged? Fact of the matter is Australia is a tiny, remote nation in the grand scheme of things, Australians can and do deserve to explore the world.

There are a lot of ex-pats around the world, I consider myself quite fortunate as a Canadian to count myself amongst the diaspora here in Australia. People live in other countries for better work, education or other opportunities. Just because we may not live in the country we were born or hold citizenship does not mean we are any less a citizen of the country.

Well in the case of the 'two Michaels', based on your link, one Michael turned out to really be a spy, and the other did provide intel, albeit unwittingly. That Michael sued the Canadian Government and settled for CAD7mil.
So in their case, the government definitely would need to retrieve them.

 

[Quickstatus]

There is an unwritten obligation that Qantas helps Australians in need, as determined by the Federal Government and coordinated by DFAT.

Sounds like it is not an obligation but more of a tradition.

In any case, not just QF is assisting with the evac ex Larnaca but QF's nemesis, QR as well (though maybe not FOC). As QR operates daily LCA-DOH and then with multiple flights from DOH to AU (and similarly EK), QR/EK are actually in a better position to assist than QF. The QF repat flights are in my view more about domestic politics. If the Govt really wanted to evac lots of its people, then 2 flights out of LCA-AU is hardly efficient and why just stop at 2 (tokenism?). Much more efficient to move them LCA-DOH and LCA-DXB using the 787s or the 2x RAAF c130 already parked at LCA.

 

[jrfsp]

Sounds like it is not an obligation but more of a tradition.

In any case, not just QF is assisting with the evac ex Larnaca but QF's nemesis, QR as well (though maybe not FOC).

Seems a bit ridiculous that QF gets involved with this sort of work, particularly as they’ll only fly from Cyprus - cynical but seems all for publicity / photo op in SYD. All other nations seem to be using ACMI charters or military aircraft, any other nation getting their flag carrier involved?

 

[Quickstatus]

Insurance companies would not have insured anyone travelling with such a notice.

But again, the 2006 repatriation policy is the defacto insurance policy.

any other nation getting their flag carrier involved?

Is QF the flag carrier?.
But note my previous post about QR's involvement

 

[Mr Bill]

Well, if they're lucky, maybe the plane will make it back in one piece, then...

First images show a Lithuanian A340 doing the BEYLCA flight with pax transfer to a later QF flight back to OZ

 

[Mr Bill]

Seems a bit ridiculous that QF gets involved with this sort of work, particularly as they’ll only fly from Cyprus - cynical but seems all for publicity / photo op in SYD. All other nations seem to be using ACMI charters or military aircraft, any other nation getting their flag carrier involved?

No such thing as a free lunch.......QF and QR doing it for the $$$$.....makes good business sense. LCA safe to operate from....not so BEY.

Post automatically merged: Oct 6, 2024

First images show a Lithuanian A340 doing the BEYLCA flight with pax transfer to a later QF flight back to OZ

Edit : Lithuanian registered (LY) A340

 

[Mr Bill]

Qantas has an unwritten obligation to assist when the Government requests it.

But not free of charge .

 

[markis10]

No such thing as a free lunch.......QF and QR doing it for the $$$$.....makes good business sense. LCA safe to operate from....not so BEY.

Post automatically merged: Oct 6, 2024

Edit : Lithuanian registered (LY) A340

The aussies are on the Maltese 9H-SUN which I mentioned up thread

 

[drron]

On the community radio news today on our way to lunch they interviewed a woman on one of the QF flights. Asked her if she was happy to got out of Lebanon.
Her answer was I don’t know. I have had to leave my home, my family and my country so I am not happy.
So why does she deserve a free ticket to Australia when she doesn’t recognise it as “her” country.

 

[DejaBrew]

On the community radio news today on our way to lunch they interviewed a woman on one of the QF flights. Asked her if she was happy to got out of Lebanon.
Her answer was I don’t know. I have had to leave my home, my family and my country so I am not happy.
So why does she deserve a free ticket to Australia when she doesn’t recognise it as “her” country.

To play devil's advocate on this one... the flights were open to Australians, Australian permanent residents and their immediate family members. For all we know, that lady was an immediate family member of an Australian or Australian permanent resident and it may therefore be completely valid for her to recognise Lebanon as "her" country. Even if she was an Australian, then there's no saying she didn't emigrate from Lebanon and therefore still feel a sense of belonging to her country of birth.

 

[jrfsp]

To play devil's advocate on this one... the flights were open to Australians, Australian permanent residents and their immediate family members. For all we know, that lady was an immediate family member of an Australian or Australian permanent resident and it may therefore be completely valid for her to recognise Lebanon as "her" country. Even if she was an Australian, then there's no saying she didn't emigrate from Lebanon and therefore still feel a sense of belonging to her country of birth.

Indeed I’d imagine that’s the case with most dual nationals particularly if that’s their place or birth / where she grew up, also anyone would have significant trepidation leaving behind family and friends in a war zone - not being able to say when or even if she’ll see them again.