Qantas to operate 2 evacuation flights from Lebanon via Cyprus to Sydney

[DejaBrew]

We seem to be drifting away from planes to politics again.........boring

IMHO, I think most people have been doing a very good job of treading cautiously with their posts in this thread given the inevitable connection with politics of the day.

I would also thank/acknowledge the Mods for doing a great job in letting respectful discussion in this thread flow within reason (whilst no doubt being ready to jump all over it if it gets too out of hand).

 

[jase05]

Just leave it to QR to ferry them here. Qantas pulling a few 787s out for days to run these will cause more issues impacting thousands.

Unless it’s super urgent, and local, if one doesn’t have the fleet to run such missions, leave it to the bigger boys. As it is, the QR flights have landed and gone back to the ME before the QF flight has even departed Cyprus.

Qatar have proven they can run these missions and have considerable experience doing so. I take my hat off to them.

VA is also offering free flights from SYD back to other Australian ports to assist those arriving on the two QR flights

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Just leave it to QR to ferry them here. Qantas pulling a few 787s out for days to run these will cause more issues impacting thousands.

But presumably the government will have to pay for Qatar operating repatriation flights? Whereas Qantas is offering these flights free of charge to the government (allegedly). I would also imagine that part of the challenge as I've mentioned before is securing the safe passage between Lebanon and the third country. No doubt it's going to cost the government considerable sums of money providing this first mile of travel to affected travellers.

Unless it’s super urgent, and local, if one doesn’t have the fleet to run such missions, leave it to the bigger boys. As it is, the QR flights have landed and gone back to the ME before the QF flight has even departed Cyprus.

Qatar may be better positioned to provide flights to Australia, but I could certainly see why Qantas offered help for the publicity and goodwill being generated by such missions.

Qatar have proven they can run these missions and have considerable experience doing so. I take my hat off to them.

Only time will tell on this one. Again, the dust has hardly settled at this point with emergency rescue efforts still ongoing. Let us hope that this whole mission is uneventful. But one must be sincerely concerned for those caught in harm's way.

 

[Quickstatus]

But presumably the government will have to pay for Qatar operating repatriation flights?

Why?
QR operates regular daily LCA-DOH and from DOH to several ports in AU.

 

[justinbrett]

But presumably the government will have to pay for Qatar operating repatriation flights? Whereas Qantas is offering these flights free of charge to the government (allegedly). I would also imagine that part of the challenge as I've mentioned before is securing the safe passage between Lebanon and the third country. No doubt it's going to cost the government considerable sums of money providing this first mile of travel to affected travellers.

Qatar may be better positioned to provide flights to Australia, but I could certainly see why Qantas offered help for the publicity and goodwill being generated by such missions.

Only time will tell on this one. Again, the dust has hardly settled at this point with emergency rescue efforts still ongoing. Let us hope that this whole mission is uneventful. But one must be sincerely concerned for those caught in harm's way.

As you rightly point out the difficult part is BEY-LCA which neither airline is doing.

I don’t get all the rhetoric about missions and experience, any long haul airline is capable of organising flights from LCA to Australia. It’s not hard.

DFAT put the call out to airlines and if airlines do it and/or do it for free, they all have their motives for doing so, and it’s quite obvious. However QF has been doing these for longer than the country of Qatar has existed, so perhaps let’s not get into who’s more experienced. As stated it doesn’t really matter.

 

[jase05]

Why?
QR operates regular daily LCA-DOH and from DOH to several ports in AU.

I’m willing to bet that the Australian government are at the very least helping QR just as they would be with QF. There would be some financial help provided by the government for any airline and I believe they have chartered all 4 flights plus more on the way potentially

 

[Mr Bill]

Why?
QR operates regular daily LCA-DOH and from DOH to several ports in AU.

QR flights LCADOH usually operate via ATH using A320. Notice only one direct flt using A350.......just saying

 

[serfty]

I think @drron is suggesting that he thinks there *should* be a limit on the years away from Australia to remain qualified to receive an Australian pension, similar to the suggestion he is proposing regarding a time limit for repatriation services for AU citizens who have no been in Australia for a number of years.

This is relevant to some Australians that may be living in Lebanon. I was pointing out that anyone so doing and getting the full pension generally has lived in Australia for at least 35 years. If that were 5 years, then it's only just over 14%.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

As you rightly point out the difficult part is BEY-LCA which neither airline is doing.

And there's a lot we don't know about this critical part of the rescue mission. For instance, there is an assumption that all Aussies are either in Beirut or can simply hail an Uber and make their way over there. I'm not so sure if it's as simple as that given the situation. Perhaps Aussies are located in other urban centres like Tripoli, or worse further inland where they could be travelling for several hundred kilometres before they reach Beirut. Now some may say, well why not head for a neighbouring country that is "safe"? One need only look to the map to see that Syria and Israel are its neighbours, neither of which are particularly stable right now, and even if you were to head towards Israel, one would have to wonder what sort of scrutiny Aussies fleeing would encounter at the border (particularly if they are nationals of Lebanon).

-RooFlyer88

 

[justinbrett]

I’m willing to bet that the Australian government are at the very least helping QR just as they would be with QF. There would be some financial help provided by the government for any airline and I believe they have chartered all 4 flights plus more on the way potentially

It won’t be the same. The difference being the QF flights are operating as state aircraft using ADF call signs, so they benefit from all of the government contracts and most of these expenses will be paid for QF directly by the ADF.

The QR flights are not operating as state aircraft so any financial assistance would be paid to QR. The QR flights are operating as a regular civilian charter.

 

[jase05]

It won’t be the same. The difference being the QF flights are operating as state aircraft using ADF call signs, so they benefit from all of the government contracts and most of these expenses will be paid for QF directly by the ADF.

The QR flights are not operating as state aircraft so any financial assistance would be paid to QR. The QR flights are operating as a regular civilian charter.

Yes, my mistake in not noting they are operated differently. I do believe the QR flights would most likely be receiving some financial assistance from the government. To what extent who knows?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

It won’t be the same. The difference being the QF flights are operating as state aircraft using ADF call signs, so they benefit from all of the government contracts and most of these expenses will be paid for QF directly by the ADF.

I wonder too if the flight operating with ADF call signs would benefit from additional protection versus a commercial aircraft ferrying passengers?

 

[justinbrett]

I wonder too if the flight operating with ADF call signs would benefit from additional protection versus a commercial aircraft ferrying passengers?

Yes and I think this is the main reason for the arrangement. Basically the government accepts the risk as if it were a RAAF aircraft.

The downside is every country flown over requires a diplomatic clearance which is a PITA to organise, but the RAAF handle that.

 

[Quickstatus]

QR flights LCADOH usually operate via ATH using A320. Notice only one direct flt using A350.......just saying

Sure but there is 1xA320 daily
Dont forget its cousin EK who operates EK110 who has a daily 777-300 MLA-LCA-DXB....

Total daily seats out of LCA to DOH/DXB about 500/day....
Of course not all 500 each day would be available to those "evacueees" because under normal circumstances those flights would be not flying empty but consider the number of flights out of LCA these 2 operators would have conducted by the time 2x787 have departed, and after....

 

[p--and--t]

Not that that was very helpful. They just said "return home ASAP". Didn't say why, then slammed the borders shut less then a week later.

Not the best handling if the situation along with quite a few other shortfalls in handling the pandemic that came out in the review.

 

[p--and--t]

as QR is quietly also flying people back with no fanfare

And of course QR would not be trying to ingraciate themselves while approval is being sought for landing rights and buying shares and wetleases et al.

 

[RooFlyer]

And of course QR would not be trying to ingraciate themselves while approval is being sought for landing rights and buying shares and wetleases et al.

I think the operative bit of the phrase you quoted was 'quietly'. Brownie points or not, a foreign airline pitching in to help stranded Australians, just like they did during the pandemic <cough someone didn't cough>. I doubt those who got flown home would care less about the motivation.

 

[Quickstatus]

And of course QR would not be trying to ingraciate themselves while approval is being sought for landing rights and buying shares and wetleases et al.

Whats wrong with that. QR is not the first company to to that and it wont be the last. QF is a clean skin in this regard?

 

[p--and--t]

Whats wrong with that. QR is not the first company to to that and it wont be the last. QF is a clean skin in this regard?

Merely balancing out the original post that was implying a holier than thou QR against a scheming QF. Neither is a clean skin and neither for 100% altruism.

 

[Quickstatus]

Neither is a clean skin and neither for 100% altruism.

They can come close - in fact one could say 100% altruistic. QF's conduct in the 2002 Bali Bombing was exemplary by any measure. I will put out a link on the anniversary.