Qantas to start flights from Darwin to Singapore

[nancypants]

I thought Darwin had a pretty big overseas tourism market attracting many people, why do you need to be wierdos? When I was there last there were plenty of backpackers around for example, and tourists flying in to visit Kakadu, etc. Obviously this is mainly during the dry. I'd think that with the amount of inbound tourism from Singapore/SE Asia that Australia has overall, Darwin would be really keen to expand this market with this flight.

Yes the backpackers are incredibly low yield. The higher yield pax are incredibly fickle and the nature of the NT and attractions doesn’t help (I worked in Kakadu for a long time so have been exposed to the vagueries of international tourists). We have a late monsoon at present which means sites will be late opening, many I suspect won’t bother. The higher yielding domestic tourists are a bit more resilient but why would they come here when they could go to Bali etc. Then you have the international students which you could probably make work, except the relevant onwards connections from SIN are far better on SQ than QF, plus recent immigration changes won’t help matters

^that’s all in the dry. The wet is a total non-starter for most people

 

[aikman]

Isn't it because DRW's owners charge one of the highest airport fees in Australia?

 

[nancypants]

Isn't it because DRW's owners charge one of the highest airport fees in Australia?

An interstate return flight from Darwin can cost more than $1,500 and residents say it's price gouging

Sky-high airfares, poor flight times and unexpected scheduling changes have become standard in Darwin — and there are concerns prices may be about to climb even higher.

www.abc.net.au

Cost of doing business is high in the NT which won’t be helping matters

 

[Saab34]

Why didn’t they give this route to Jetstar?

 

[nancypants]

Why didn’t they give this route to Jetstar?

They took it FROM Jetstar!

 

[anat0l]

Does the DRW/SIN service connect well with any DRW domestic flights (both into and out of DRW)?

Not saying SYD-DRW-SIN (for example) would be an option, though it wouldn't surprise me if it were available, depending on if the timing works.

Not sure how big a FIFO market there is in DRW (and FIFO operations were doing fine without lots of DRW international connections, so why would this be a biggie now).

Think the nail was hit on the head; sounds like a government basically trying to bankroll and pander to court as many services coming to DRW as possible. Not gonna lie, for those that live in the Top End, especially before SQ came on the scene, if you wanted to get away overseas, that was tough and likely damned expensive (and probably a decision between PER, BNE or SYD).

Come to think of it, maybe it's still damned expensive (but at least there are many more good affordable options once you get to SIN).

Guess the question is should we be glad that another connection exists on the map now, or is this just a damned waste of time and effort.

 

[nancypants]

The plane that operates it comes up from MEL so you could easily do MEL-DRW-SIN, and I suspect the ADL and ASP flights would connect too. Also the CNS-DRW has been retimed recently, unsure if that is for this
Of note, you can’t do DIL-DRW-SIN without either doing an overnight in DRW (or possibly taking a TL service but I don’t know if that would ticket as a through flight)

 

[jase05]

and I suspect the ADL and ASP flights would connect too

Unless you are an absolute QF fanboy though why would you even entertain flying through DRW when you can go direct on SQ ADL-SIN for about the same price in Y as QF or about $1k cheaper than QF in J?
And if you really do want to fly with QF I dare say that even though the journey at be slightly longer we are better off going via PER, MEL or SYD for the same price to fly J as going through DRW where you are subject to a garbage narrow body product

 

[Chrizztofa]

Does the DRW/SIN service connect well with any DRW domestic flights (both into and out of DRW)?

There's a bank of flights from other cities that arrive around midday in DRW and so have decent connection times with the outbound QF113 (DRW-SIN) at 1455:

QF1959 from ASP (1100)
QF1950 from ADL (1130)
QF840 from SYD (1135)
QF824 from BNE (1205)
QF1888 from CNS (1205)
QF836 from MEL (1310 - this is the through service)
QF848 from PER (1350 - not sure if this meets minimum connection time)

No good connections on the return QF114 arriving at 0140 especially since you need to clear immigration, but there are a few services if you can slum it in DRW for a few hours:

QF837 to MEL (0600)
QF1958 to ASP (0600)
QF1889 to CNS (0615)
QF1951 to ADL (0745)

(The original arrival time of around 0445 isn't much better since DRW is basically a ghost town until the QF bank arrives around midday).

There really is no good reason to take the flight unless you're a DRW local or connecting to/from ASP. Even CNS sees a SQ widebody a few days a week I believe. However it could be used as a way for QF to increase capacity to SIN during its current widebody shortage (and for some to burn points on classic rewards to SIN).

I'll be on the flight in June and can have a look at loads then (at the height of dry season). My DRW-PER J ticket got downgraded to a QFlink A320, so they gave me the option of taking QF113 to SIN and connecting back on QF72 to PER. Not sure how I'll explain that to immigration!

 

[jpp42]

(and for some to burn points on classic rewards to SIN).

Yeah if loadings are as low as anticipated, that might be a reason of relevance for this group.

Also, will QF sell e.g. SYD-DRW-SIN as a married segment, possibly charging lower fares than DRW-SIN individually? Not sure if they make a habit of this kind of thing but in other markets that's often possible and may result in more SC...

 

[nancypants]

I just searched and they do appear to be willing to sell tickets, although it seems they preference an overnight layover

 

[I love to travel]

I got ADL -DWN - SIN in J on points for mum.

 

[jase05]

I got ADL -DWN - SIN in J on points for mum.

I can understand with points but surely no sane person is paying for that route when a far superior offering is cheaper on SQ.

Even just the DRW-SIN flights are roughly the same price on SQ and QF so apart from no lounge access in DRW I just can’t understand how the QF flight can compete. Perhaps JQ on that route might have been a better option?

 

[HS-TQE]

I can understand with points but surely no sane person is paying for that route when a far superior offering is cheaper on SQ.

Even just the DRW-SIN flights are roughly the same price on SQ and QF so apart from no lounge access in DRW I just can’t understand how the QF flight can compete. Perhaps JQ on that route might have been a better option?

QF mainline replaced JQ/3K on the DRW-SIN route.

 

[jase05]

QF mainline replaced JQ/3K on the DRW-SIN route.

I honestly don’t know how profitable it was and I don’t understand why they dropped it in the first place. I just can’t see how QF can compete with SQ unless they dramatically drop their prices especially for J.

 

[eastwest101]

It might be that the JQ/3K services DRW-SIN route might have been OK to marginal but maybe the move of terminals in SIN pushed it over the edge? Also Covid.

Agree that the new QF DRW-SIN service only makes sense for DRW and maybe ASP based passengers, for people based more in SIN then for most of them SQ would be a more obvious choice given the fares are within 10-15% of eachother, but maybe the move to put QF on the route might also be an attempt to get higher margin passengers since the NT does have a small but important Oil and Gas sector and with Singapore being an Oil and Gas headquarters for the East, plus the increased Australian, Singapore and US armed forces present in the NT might also drive some traffic between DRW and SIN? Defence and Oil&Gas obviously less seasonal and higher yield than tourism. Also might be some low-volume but high-value cargo that helps the economics between DRW and SIN?

The NT and generally most of Australia is now too expensive for mass market low yield back-packer type tourism, especially with many other cheaper options in SE Asia, and the tourism sector in the NT seems run-down for the high yield part of the tourism sector, and too expensive for the mass-market lower yield part.

Just a quick and not super scientific look on the days where SQ and QF are having head to head direct flights in competition I have just had a quick look at Y fares and J fares and it seems that QF undercuts SQ on prices ex-AUS but in the reverse direction it seems that SQ is cheaper if prices are ex-SIN, so each carrier seems to have a "home ground advantage" if you like in obtaining yield in its own home market. Although the flight times are different, it still seems weird and counter-intuitive to have QF and SQ flying on the same days, with other days having neither a QF nor a SQ service at all.

 

[SYD]

I got ADL -DWN - SIN in J on points for mum.

There was / is a scattering of SYD-DRW-SIN J CRs - which are decent SC earners for PC/PC+ members (especially during DSC) - albeit obviously PE seating all the way.

 

[Saab34]

How long is the subsidy in place would probably determine this routes fate.

 

[Chrizztofa]

One small advantage QF has over SQ on the route are the lounges - I consider the DRW Qantas Club one of the best in the network as it's quiet, spacious and has better food offering than most Qantas Clubs (given it basically doubles as an International Business Lounge).

By contrast SQ don't offer lounge access in DRW.

Ex-SIN you can get access to the excellent QF F lounge (if OWE) and QR lounge (if flying J).

 

[I love to travel]

There was / is a scattering of SYD-DRW-SIN J CRs - which are decent SC earners for PC/PC+ members (especially during DSC) - albeit obviously PE seating all the way.

That is why the Adelaide route is more palatable as you have 2 shorter flights in PE type seating with J service on both legs