Qantas, Virgin, Qatar called to assist with Israel repatriation flights

[dylarr]

I guess we would normally not seen this?

Was wondering this as well. I did notice watching on FR24 that as soon as the flight entered the Tel Aviv FIR the position became really jumpy as well. FR24 addressed this on Twitter earlier saying that the cause was GPS interference that was impacting a lot of flights in the area.

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1712657643909583134

 

[RooFlyer]

GPS interference?

 

[LondonAussie]

Can see ASY1168 has just left TLV heading back to LHR.

Interestingly has been a few repatriation flights today.

Canada and France are both flying their citizens to Athens.

Switzerland and Brazil are taking theirs home - to Zurich and Rio De Janeiro.

 

[justinbrett]

I have just looked at the altitude/speed profile of VH-ZNN into TLV. Average sue speed was around 460 knots from LHR just to before TLV, then during descent the air speed seems to have jumped up to 738 knots with a steep descent. I guess they wanted to come down very steeply and very fast.

I guess we would normally not see this?

@jb747 - any insights?

That is the military way to avoid missiles. I’m guessing ex Air Force pilot If this is what actually happened and not just interference.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I can't understand how that speed number is accurate.

 

[justinbrett]

I can't understand how that speed number is accurate.

That figure was definitely a glitch, you can see a sudden spike in the graph and then it returns straight back down. That defies physics.

 

[jb747]

There was a behind the scenes piece in the Daily Telegraph today that stated there will be 3 senior captains onboard.

It’s a rule of aviation that the more Captains that you have on board (beyond 1), the less safe the flight is.

As for ”senior”…well, as promotion is so slow in QF (‘cos somebody transferred most of the flying to subsidiaries), any QF wide body captain has to have been around for so long that their wheelchairs will be rusting. The reality is that it would have been whomever they could grab in London.

It will be carrying enough fuel to do the round trip to TLV and back to LHR.

As well as the cabin crew, also onboard are specialist ground crew to board pax, medical personal and engineers.

Both normal for this sort of operation.

I have just looked at the altitude/speed profile of VH-ZNN into TLV. Average sue speed was around 460 knots from LHR just to before TLV, then during descent the air speed seems to have jumped up to 738 knots with a steep descent. I guess they wanted to come down very steeply and very fast.

I guess we would normally not see this?

Yes. It’s rubbish.

The wind at about 10,000’ was 30 knots. So that gives you a TAS of roughly 700 knots. To have that at 10k feet, you’d need an IAS of something in the order of 600 knots. The maximum IAS of the 787 is about 350 knots. It’s also around mach 1.1. Another impossible number.

That is the military way to avoid missiles.

This is the speed you get after the missile hits.

I’m guessing ex Air Force pilot If this is what actually happened and not just interference.

You don’t have much faith in the civil pilots. If all you want is a high rate of descent, max speed brake and a high IAS is all that’s required. Anyone, including Second Officers, can fly that. And beyond that, not everyone from the military is an ace.

That figure was definitely a glitch, you can see a sudden spike in the graph and then it returns straight back down. That defies physics.

Exactly.

 

[justinbrett]

This is the speed you get after the missile hits.


You don’t have much faith in the civil pilots. If all you want is a high rate of descent, max speed brake and a high IAS is all that’s required. Anyone, including Second Officers, can fly that. And beyond that, not everyone from the military is an ace.

Exactly.

Sorry was not suggesting doing 700+ KT was the tactic, but in general a high speed steep descent is a standard profile for a military transport jet in an opposed area (props like C130s would often do a spiral descent over the field).

I don’t know if QF did anything out of the ordinary on this approach as we have bogus data, but if they did use the profile above I would have thought either military background or received advice from one.

I’m not suggesting the execution of that profile is difficult, but would someone who’s never flown in the military know to do that? I guess now I think about it, it’s flying with an ASY callsign so no doubt the boffins in the AOC have been briefing QF.

 

[jb747]

I don’t know if QF did anything out of the ordinary on this approach as we have bogus data, but if they did use the profile above I would have thought either military background or received advice from one.

They would have done whatever ATC told them to do. If they held them high, then the approach would be steep.

But, looking at the FR24 data, none of that happened. They were brought down to about 10,000 quite early, and then held there over the hills to the north. Nothing steep at all, in fact, it's the opposite.

 

[jase05]

And the remainder of repatriation flights has been cancelled and TLV is apparently closing for a while

 

[pauly7]

And the remainder of repatriation flights has been cancelled and TLV is apparently closing for a while

Just saw. Awful news for those trying to get out and their families.

 

[AIRwin]

VH-YIE is nearing the end of its maintenance visit in Abu Dhabi. At the moment, it’s scheduled back to Australia this weekend

It's now on the way to BNE via SIN:
VA9944 from Abu Dhabi Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

 

[MARTINE]

Jewish people as a rule don't fly into/via ME countries; not that all Aussies in Israel atm are Jewish but the vast majority would be.

London is the nearest safe port where QF have ground crew and aircraft; and a lot of options for people to come home safely via non-islamic countries.

I worked on a project once where main vendor was based in Tel-Aviv and whenever they would come to Australia for workshops they would fly a very long route to avoid stopping in any countries which were Islamic or Islamic sympathizers.

So they would often fly Israel - Switzerland - London/Western EU - SIN - SYD. Never stop anywhere in the ME or Indonesia or Malaysia.

True
When we visited Israel on ElAl from BKK the route is very circuitous avoiding certain airspace

 

[OZDUCK]

The evacuation flights have now been cancelled for today and tomorrow. Apparently a rocket landed near to the airport and there are suspicions that intelligence agencies have raised concerns about a possible escalation of attacks on the airport.

Live: Repatriation flights cancelled for Australians as Israel issues six-hour window for evacuations from Gaza

A flight for Australians to evacuate Israel has been cancelled, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has announced. Follow live.

www.abc.net.au

 

[jrfsp]

Sounds like raaf will now be doing the evac
Flights
From the ABC
“two Australian C-17 transport aircraft and a KC-30A multi-role tanker have already been deployed to Australia's base for operations in the Middle East”

 

[justinbrett]

Sounds like raaf will now be doing the evac
Flights
From the ABC
“two Australian C-17 transport aircraft and a KC-30A multi-role tanker have already been deployed to Australia's base for operations in the Middle East”

Australia maintains a base at Al Minhad Air Base (NHD) on the outskirts of Dubai - has done for nearly 20 years. Those aircraft pass through on a routine basis so this isn’t a big deal. There is accomodation for around 500 pax so should be very suitable to house Aussies before they can be bussed to a civilian flight out of DXB.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Australia maintains a base at Al Mimhad Air Base (NHD) on the outskirts of Dubai - has done for nearly 20 years. Those aircraft pass through on a routine basis so this isn’t a big deal. There is accomodation for around 500 pax so should be very suitable to house Aussies before they can be bussed to a civilian flight out of DXB.

Yes indeed
It's what should've happened in the first place
Just my 2c

 

[exLXCXFF]

There wasn’t any flight yesterday, right?

 

[AIRwin]

There wasn’t any flight yesterday, right?

 

[exLXCXFF]

View attachment 350464

Thanks - was also referring to the ones mentioned by Penny Wong by the RAAF out of the Al Minhad Airbase in the UEA.