Qatar Airways to acquire 25% of Virgin Australia

[justinbrett]

Back in the day when VA briefly flew to Abu Dhabi ... were those flights codeshares with Etihad or VA flights only?

I’m pretty sure they had VS codes. Not sure about EY.

 

[Himeno]

At one stage VA flew Abu Dhabi - Kuala Lumpur under EY flight numbers.

They were wet leases for EY as the aircraft would have been sitting in AUH for 2 days between flights back to AU as, for some odd reason, VA didn't have a logical schedule for the AUH flights.

 

[Daver6]

It will most likely be Q suites to align with the other 777 services.

There will be no dedicated aircrafts to VA as the QR aircraft flying for VA will be flying QR's other routes too.

Imagine if they flew DOH-SYD-LAX then either as a QR flight LAX-DOH or just turned around. This would really add some good competition across the Pacific!

 

[drron]

QR taking a 25% stake in VA would be an ownership change. If ownership of an Australian airline becomes such that it can no longer be considered to be an "Australian" airline, they no longer have access to capacity applications from IASC.

QR using part ownership of VA to access the Australian half of the Australia-Doha capacity, especially when using their own aircraft under a VA code, would be a clear attempt to get around the Air Service Agreement limits.
IASC is a part of the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts and Policy Statements issued by the minister form part of the criteria used when allocating capacity.

But Bain is a foreign owned company so QR taking 25% off bain will mean no difference in the set up. remember VA1 was certainly not 51% Australian owned. When Bain took over they stated they were keeping the VA International subsidiary which I assume has a 51% Australian ownership carefully vetted by Bain.

 

[Saab34]

SYD-AUH was VA29

 

[jase05]

I don’t think anyone can predict what will happen but this isn’t Bain or QR’s first rodeo. I’d be pretty certain that they will have an army of legal experts to ensure things go as smooth as possible.
Hopefully whatever happens it’s just the start of bigger and better things for VA though

 

[Saab34]

I recall the bridge loan has a maturity date of May 2025, so they need to list based off H1 FY25 at the latest, so going public next May.

Unless the get an extension, no idea how that world works.

 

[SYD]

SYD-AUH was VA29

I never got to fly it even though a was flying EY to Europe 2 or 3 times a year for work.

Booking with EY, the VA codeshare was often there as an option but usually didn’t connect very well and I preferred the EY seat (at the time). From memory, VA pulled out AUH before they fitted “The Business” seat?

As mentioned earlier, it would be funny if those ex VA 777s made a comeback…

 

[jb747]

Doesn't USA/Australia have 'open skies', and airlines can increase capacity at will (question, not rhetorical). presumably DL would increase services if 'fed' by VA. Airlines like to expand ...

The US’s version of “open skies” translates as your open skies, not ours.

I wouldn’t be surprised if VA/QR propose a damp lease to tick the “Australian employment” angle with at least the cabin crew being VA. The tech crew will probably be expats anyway

Qatar, amongst others were very quick to fire their expats during covid. Whilst I’m sure some are back, it will be treated with more wariness than in the past. In any event, expats come from everywhere.

The saddest part in this is that it really just shows how badly his Joyceness prepared QF for the future, and how poor a state he left it in. For starters there was zero reason, other than spite, for paying off two of the 380s, and it’s capacity they need now.

 

[RooFlyer]

Certainly don't think Qatar getting their hands dirty is ideal for Australia. History suggests not a single foreign airline has stuck in Australia or left a robust airline so what makes us think Qatar will be different. Hopefully it stays at 25% as a cornerstone investor with the remainder diversified between the ASX and the likes of Virgin, Main, etc.

20-25% is about the level of their investment in other airlines, so I can't see them wanting any more. Just enough to influence the direction (ie Qatar-wards).

 

[Spizz]

Does this mean Virgin will eventually now join Oneworld? How would that work with Qantas?

 

[SYD]

Does this mean Virgin will eventually now join Oneworld?

No.

How would that work with Qantas?

It wouldn’t. QF would veto it…

 

[PERLHR]

No.

It wouldn’t. QF would veto it…

Well yes in theory they would. However stranger things have happened. Perhaps QF are just better off with their cosey bed partners EK. Funny how they seem to refer to EK over any other of their alliance partners isn't it?

 

[SYD]

Well yes in theory they would. However stranger things have happened. Perhaps QF are just better off with their cosey bed partners EK. Funny how they seem to refer EK over any other of their alliance partners isn't it?

Goes all the way back to the “can’t beat them join them days” when EK was eating everyone’s lunch (and QR was nowwhere to be seen then….except MEL).

Besides, EK (and QR, EY) are of use in one direction. Not transpacific / transatlantic which are specifically excluded in the QF/EK agreement in lieu of AA partnership, LA (still) etc.

 

[justinbrett]

Well yes in theory they would. However stranger things have happened. Perhaps QF are just better off with their cosey bed partners EK. Funny how they seem to refer EK over any other of their alliance partners isn't it?

It’s simple maths. How many flights does QF fly to Europe, vs North America and Japan?

QF will definitely be needing BA for sunrise connections. Then there’s also AY.

I think you project your personal wishes onto the situation and not the reality.

If I had to pick one of QF leaving oneworld or breaking up with EK, it would be the latter.

 

[ozstamps]

Jayney emailed today, saying Virgin is aiming on getting approved 25% Qatar ownership, AND adding this VERY interesting tidbit -

Subject to relevant regulatory approvals, Virgin Australia will launch flights from Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney to Doha from mid-2025, connecting seamlessly into Qatar Airways’ global network1. These extra flights will be operated under wet-lease by Qatar Airways and will open up more than 100 new connecting itineraries across Europe, the Middle East and Africa for Australian travellers.

 

[jase05]

Jayney emailed today, saying Virgin is aiming on getting approved 25% Qatar ownership, AND adding this VERY interesting tidbit -

Subject to relevant regulatory approvals, Virgin Australia will launch flights from Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney to Doha from mid-2025, connecting seamlessly into Qatar Airways’ global network1. These extra flights will be operated under wet-lease by Qatar Airways and will open up more than 100 new connecting itineraries across Europe, the Middle East and Africa for Australian travellers.

Yes, has been mentioned many times in this thread today

 

[Human]

Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet: (apologies if it has!)

If VA flies to Doha, it would mean that Virgin's own, better, Velocity reward points table would apply: ie, Australia east coast to Doha for 71,700 Velocity points for a Business class flight. To fly to Doha currently on Qatar costs 104,000 Velocity points (not to mention the high carrier charges).

Conceivably, VA would move Qatar redemptions into the better redemption table (which currently includes Virgin Australia, United, and Virgin Atlantic).

If that happens, a Business Class redemption on VA/QR to Europe could be booked all from the one redemption table and would cost 127,500 Velocity points, with lower carrier charges (at least on the Australia-to-Doha leg) as well.

That, coupled with the greater availability that comes from increased flights, would be a massive win for Velocity members and would cement Velocity as the FF programme of choice for flying to Europe and back.

 

[SYD]

Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet: (apologies if it has!)

If VA flies to Doha, it would mean that Virgin's own, better, Velocity reward points table would apply: ie, Australia east coast to Doha for 71,700 Velocity points for a Business class flight. To fly to Doha currently on Qatar costs 104,000 Velocity points (not to mention the high carrier charges).

Conceivably, VA would move Qatar redemptions into the better redemption table (which currently includes Virgin Australia, United, and Virgin Atlantic).

If that happens, a Business Class redemption on VA/QR to Europe could be booked all from the one redemption table and would cost 127,500 Velocity points, with lower carrier charges (at least on the Australia-to-Doha leg) as well.

That, coupled with the greater availability that comes from increased flights, would be a massive win for Velocity members and would cement Velocity as the FF programme of choice for flying to Europe and back.

I don’t recall VFF making any changes in and around flights to AUH when EY was the then BFF and VA metal was plying those skies.

Someone else here may recall?

But at the time, EY redemptions were pretty competitive. Before they were the first of the ME3 to start slapping excessive fuel fines on redemptions - the irony has never been lost on me…

 

[elanshin]

Something that I don't think has been mentioned yet: (apologies if it has!)

If VA flies to Doha, it would mean that Virgin's own, better, Velocity reward points table would apply: ie, Australia east coast to Doha for 71,700 Velocity points for a Business class flight. To fly to Doha currently on Qatar costs 104,000 Velocity points (not to mention the high carrier charges).

Conceivably, VA would move Qatar redemptions into the better redemption table (which currently includes Virgin Australia, United, and Virgin Atlantic).

If that happens, a Business Class redemption on VA/QR to Europe could be booked all from the one redemption table and would cost 127,500 Velocity points, with lower carrier charges (at least on the Australia-to-Doha leg) as well.

That, coupled with the greater availability that comes from increased flights, would be a massive win for Velocity members and would cement Velocity as the FF programme of choice for flying to Europe and back.

Why would you assume that they would move in that direction and not in the direction of QR?

Perhaps short term that might be a thing but given QR just actively changed a lot of their award structure, don't expect this to last if at all.