Qatar Airways to acquire 25% of Virgin Australia

[justinbrett]

B

Thread 'Confirmed : Etihad Airways Gone by Late 2025 (Regardless of Qatar tie-up)'

Today at 1:43 PM

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/public-registers/documents/Virgin%20Australia%20and%20Qatar%20Airways%20-%20Response%20to%20interested%20party%20submissions%20-%2013.11.24%20-%20PR%20VERSION%20-%20AA1000679%20Virgin%20Qatar.pdf?ref=0&download=y

"Etihad Airways will cease to be a Velocity partner and, with or without the Proposed Conduct, Virgin Australia does not codeshare on Etihad Airways’
services. Further clarifications on the changes that will be made are provided below."

"Virgin Australia will in late 2025, terminate its limited remaining partnership with Etihad Airways"

• Bagpuss
• Replies: 9
• Forum: Virgin Australia | Velocity

• 
• 

I meant the bit about VS and SA.

Application specifically says it won’t partner (codeshare or loyalty) with another airline headquartered in Europe or Africa.

 

[Bagpuss]

I meant the bit about VS and SA.

Application specifically says it won’t partner (codeshare or loyalty) with another airline headquartered in Europe or Africa.

The response is crystal clear that VS and SAA are unaffected.

I think the wording used was very poor in the application.

What they aren't budging on is a solid commitment of VA returning to Long Haul Services. However, it does mention of VA crew being skilled by Qatar in the event of its return. They comment that the authorization would be for 5 years so if the commitment to re-enter Long Haul in 5 to 7 years with their own crew and aircraft would be after the current authorization lapses which is a fair call.

Reading the response it's really a no brainier for the ACCC to approve it.

 

[HS-TQE]

Looks like EY has had enough of their BS.

EY was barely a unilateral codeshare partner and VFF redemption partner in the end since they got "demoted" to a unilateral/minor partner when QR first came onboard VA/VFF.

.It doesn't cost too much for EY to convert their unilateral VAd codeshares from SYD and MEL to basic interlines.

 

[simmomelb]

I meant the bit about VS and SA.

Application specifically says it won’t partner (codeshare or loyalty) with another airline headquartered in Europe or Africa.

Exactly, nothing says it'll be business as usual with VS and SA, on the contrary.

 

[simmomelb]

The response is crystal clear that VS and SAA are unaffected.

What part makes this clear? I am haven't found anything that states this.

 

[Bagpuss]

What part makes this clear? I am haven't found anything that states this.

Page 6 :

 

[tmdl]

EY was barely a unilateral codeshare partner and VFF redemption partner in the end since they got "demoted" to a unilateral/minor partner when QR first came onboard VA/VFF.

.It doesn't cost too much for EY to convert their unilateral VAd codeshares from SYD and MEL to basic interlines.

If you cant book J seats 300 days out, bye

 

[Bagpuss]

EY was barely a unilateral codeshare partner and VFF redemption partner in the end since they got "demoted" to a unilateral/minor partner when QR first came onboard VA/VFF.

.It doesn't cost too much for EY to convert their unilateral VAd codeshares from SYD and MEL to basic interlines.

I just looked at delta.com and they just sell interline Jetstar and Virgin Australia flights, so I expect that's what EY will do.

Delta are still operating 2 x daily flights into Sydney, they haven't gone back to the 1 daily.

It's not a bad thing as you would still get the VA flight credited to Velocity.

 

[SeaWolf]

Two new docs added to the ACCC portal today that might be of some interest:

Virgin Australia and Qatar Airways

Virgin Australia and Qatar Airways (the Applicants) seek authorisation to engage in cooperative conduct under an integrated alliance including:

www.accc.gov.au

Virgin Australia and Qatar Airways - Response to interested party submissions
Virgin Australia and Qatar Airways – response to ACCC information request

 

[justinbrett]

The response is crystal clear that VS and SAA are unaffected.

I think the wording used was very poor in the application.

What they aren't budging on is a solid commitment of VA returning to Long Haul Services. However, it does mention of VA crew being skilled by Qatar in the event of its return. They comment that the authorization would be for 5 years so if the commitment to re-enter Long Haul in 5 to 7 years with their own crew and aircraft would be after the current authorization lapses which is a fair call.

Reading the response it's really a no brainier for the ACCC to approve it.

That may be the case, but it’s not what it says in the application.

VA says in the response “there appears to be some confusion…”. Read your own application, champs. What they’re saying now is a contradiction to the application. Either the application was written by amateurs (my working theory at the time), or they’ve done a backflip as a result of the submissions.

But then the waters are muddied, after the submission from VA, ACCC asked a specific question the following day about the exclusivity arrangements (smashing the theory ACCC aren’t interested in this), and the response on Friday said “VA are not seeking authorisation for the proposed exclusivity arrangements”.

Which reads to me that they’re not denying them but realise they don’t need approval to do it.

Edit - actually event the text of their response contradicts the table you posted.

 

[rj90]

Per VA/QR's response to the ACCC today:

 

[Bagpuss]

That may be the case, but it’s not what it says in the application.

VA says in the response “there appears to be some confusion…”. Read your own application, champs. What they’re saying now is a contradiction to the application. Either the application was written by amateurs (my working theory at the time), or they’ve done a backflip as a result of the submissions.

But then the waters are muddied, after the submission from VA, ACCC asked a specific question the following day about the exclusivity arrangements (smashing the theory ACCC aren’t interested in this), and the response on Friday said “VA are not seeking authorisation for the proposed exclusivity arrangements”.

Which reads to me that they’re not denying them but realise they don’t need approval to do it.

Edit - actually event the text of their response contradicts the table you posted.

It's really Gilbert & Tobin who submitted the application and response, not VA. VA probably had to part with $20,000 for the work.

Think it's been rushed and been a little bit sloppy piece of work. Though VA also should have checked this all themselves as part of the application.

 

[justinbrett]

It's really Gilbert & Tobin who submitted the application and response, not VA. VA probably had to part with $20,000 for the work.

Think it's been rushed and been a little bit sloppy piece of work. Though VA also should have checked this all themselves as part of the application.

But now there’s contradictions even within the response.

 

[jase05]

Looks like a fantastic outcome for VA frequent flyers if it eventuates

 

[justinbrett]

Looks like a fantastic outcome for VA frequent flyers if it eventuates

Once we can nail down what that outcome is

All over the place. Who knows what the hell is going on, I’m more confused than ever about it.

 

[henrus]

Once we can nail down what that outcome is

All over the place. Who knows what the hell is going on, I’m more confused than ever about it.

A part of me wonders if they're doing it on purpose, being vague to see what can slide through...

Next up some one will comment something stupid like saying these flights will need an "Australian" interrupter and then they'll add to the application they were meant to include that

 

[Bagpuss]

But now there’s contradictions even within the response.

I think this confusion comes down to two different relationships.

Also, with Singapore Airlines it's key to remember Singapore isn't the Middle East.

SIA : Becomes muddled between the Velocity relationship (you can redeem Velocity points for a flight to Europe) and Virgin Australia relationship (you wont be able to purchase a VA codeshare to/from Europe).

I think really when they are saying "exclusive", they are really saying "Virgin Australia & Velocity won't partner with any other airlines head quartered in selected regions except with our existing partners. However, we are terminating our relationship with Etihad and we wont codeshare with SIA to Europe, though through the Velocity relationship points can be redeemed for SIA flights to Europe. Though there is no prevention for Qatar or Virgin Australia to join a global alliance"

 

[justinbrett]

I think this confusion comes down to two different relationships.

Also, with Singapore Airlines it's key to remember Singapore isn't the Middle East.

SIA : Becomes muddled between the Velocity relationship (you can redeem Velocity points for a flight to Europe) and Virgin Australia relationship (you wont be able to purchase a VA codeshare to/from Europe).

I think really when they are saying "exclusive", they are really saying "Virgin Australia & Velocity won't partner with any other airlines head quartered in selected regions except with our existing partners. However, we are terminating our relationship with Etihad and we wont codeshare with SIA to Europe, though through the Velocity relationship points can be redeemed for SIA flights to Europe. Though there is no prevention for Qatar or Virgin Australia to join a global alliance"

I’m specifically talking about VS and SA which another poster brought up.

 

[SYD]

Looks like a fantastic outcome for VA frequent flyers if it eventuates

Not sure it’s wildly different. Probably worse in the long run, especially when the new VFF rules kick in (status earn requiring a chunk of VA codes flying). Less choice and one of the better partner perks removed.

 

[Bagpuss]

I’m specifically talking about VS and SA which another poster brought up.

Both are unaffected which have been confirmed. I'm sure they regret the wording used in orginal application.

"There are no changes to arrangements with Virgin Atlantic (VS) or South African Airways (SA)". End of page 5 and page 6.

A question mark has now been thrown over Air Canada though, but I expect is safe. Virgin Australia’s Big Play: Qatar partnership, long-haul return, and IPO path