Qatar Airways to acquire 25% of Virgin Australia

[abeja]

Once we can nail down what that outcome is

All over the place. Who knows what the hell is going on, I’m more confused than ever about it.

Looks like EY has had enough of their BS.

For my family the severing with Etihad is a bummer. I went from flying Syd-Europe with Etihad when they had a bad patch a few years back, to Qatar who were at the top of their game for 2 or 3 years, then back to Etihad the past 2 or 3 years- after Qatar became a victim of its own popularity ie fully booked flights and overcrowded hub in Doha with tortuously long & seemingly pointless re-security-check lineups, for everyone transiting ie booked through to destination on connecting flights. Partly went back to EHY because we've found them better in the air and at their hub airport again, partly because we could never get into Priority Pass lounges in Doha (always over subscribed ie full) , but have without fail gotten admission into lounges at Abu Dhabi. Makes a huge difference to R & R in mid East layover.

 

[roby]

In any case, being able to earn SQ, AC, UA, VS, etc miles on those VA wet leased QR operated flights would be quite funny.

 

[Bagpuss]

Same document:

View attachment 415545

Pointshack have actually worded this very well. Though they then state ending codeshares with SAA which is wrong.

The proposed investment by Qatar Airways is a pivotal factor in this development. According to the joint application submitted by Virgin Australia and Qatar Airways to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), Qatar Airways is set to become Virgin Australia’s exclusive interline, codeshare, and loyalty partner (with some exceptions).

Breaking: Etihad Ends Partnership with Virgin Australia | Flight Hacks

At Flight Hacks it’s our goal to help you maximise your frequent flyer points. We cover all the latest points news, deals, reward credit cards, tips and tricks.

flighthacks.com.au

 

[simmomelb]

Pointshack have actually worded this very well. Though they then state ending codeshares with SAA which is wrong.

The proposed investment by Qatar Airways is a pivotal factor in this development. According to the joint application submitted by Virgin Australia and Qatar Airways to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), Qatar Airways is set to become Virgin Australia’s exclusive interline, codeshare, and loyalty partner (with some exceptions).

Breaking: Etihad Ends Partnership with Virgin Australia | Flight Hacks

At Flight Hacks it’s our goal to help you maximise your frequent flyer points. We cover all the latest points news, deals, reward credit cards, tips and tricks.

flighthacks.com.au

It's also incorrect regarding Singapore Airlines changes, although I understand the confusion, given Gilbert & Tobin's woeful submission on 13/11/2024 (published 15/11/2024) to the ACCC, which will need further clarification given the conflicting information.
No doubt they'll be working on that as we speak.

 

[Bagpuss]

It's also incorrect regarding Singapore Airlines changes, although I understand the confusion, given Gilbert & Tobin's woeful submission on 13/11/2024 (published 15/11/2024) to the ACCC, which will need further clarification given the conflicting information.
No doubt they'll be working on that as we speak.

I've come across a better article.

I'm sure everyone will agree they made a dogs breakfast of the application.

Etihad and Virgin Australia sets partnership end date

Etihad and Virgin Australia will no longer be partners from mid-2025, as Qatar Airways looks to deepen its ties with Virgin Australia.

www.pointhacks.com.au

 

[ben95]

I'm sure everyone will agree they made a dogs breakfast of the application.

The points hack article actually had the “correct” interpretation I think.

We imagine the latter direct statement is the one to follow, indicating that the existing partnerships will be largely unaffected by the proposed submission, though the door remains closed to new ones from those regions.

Existing partnerships are the “some exceptions” but VA won’t add new partnerships in those regions without a nod from QR.

 

[justinbrett]

I don’t buy the argument this was always intended and they just barry’d the wording. If that is the case those lawyers should never work again.

I think it’s more likely this was unexpected pushback for them and they’re trying to save the furniture. At the end of the day, nothing stopping VA terminating the other relationships the day the authorisation is granted.

I also think ACCC should be directing questions to VA/QR management not a law firm. They clearly aren’t helping. QF/EK correspondence was with QF directly - though I guess they have an internal legal department. Does VA not?

 

[Bagpuss]

I also think ACCC should be directing questions to VA/QR management not a law firm. They clearly aren’t helping. QF/EK correspondence was with QF directly - though I guess they have an internal legal department. Does VA not?

100% VA would have an internal legal department as they deal with airports, aircraft leasing etc. It would be much cheaper doing this inhouse.

However, to what size the department is and the credentials is another.

Whilst any company has an internal legal team, it's still normal practice to use external legal in some circumstances.

On a side note it's interesting that the media are stating Etihad terminated the relationship with VA and not the other way around which we were expecting.

 

[jase05]

On a side note it's interesting that the media are stating Etihad terminated the relationship with VA and not the other way around which we were expecting.

EY can see the writing on the wall and by them being the ones to set the time frame they now have a concrete exit date and aren’t in limbo. It allows them to get on with things.

 

[SeaWolf]

EY can see the writing on the wall and by them being the ones to set the time frame they now have a concrete exit date and aren’t in limbo. It allows them to get on with things.

They've also clearly been drawing back from the Australian market, they only fly to Sydney and Melbourne now, so they probably have a lot less need for an Australian partner.

 

[jase05]

They've also clearly been drawing back from the Australian market, they only fly to Sydney and Melbourne now, so they probably have a lot less need for an Australian partner.

They have stated a few times that they are increasing frequencies to SYD and MEL next year and speculation they are returning to PER soon

 

[Bagpuss]

They have stated a few times that they are increasing frequencies to SYD and MEL next year and speculation they are returning to PER soon

Jokes.... ACCC asks VA why they have an application which states Etihad's poor network in which Etihad are on the verge on announcing additional flights (and rumored to include Perth).

It highlights poor form from VA. Though it maybe that they knew and another reason for what appears like a very rushed application.

 

[Mattg]

Looks like the hypocrisy in Qantas' submission to the ACCC didn't go unnoticed. Virgin has included these paragraphs in its response:

Unlike the Qantas-Finnair arrangement, which is used to operate Qantas’ pre-existing services with foreign-based crew, Virgin Australia is using wet lease services to deliver entirely new services that would not otherwise be flown. There are no Australian jobs in existence which are being replaced or removed as a result of the decision to use a wet lease to bring this capacity to the market. All existing services across Virgin Australia’s current network (domestic and international) are currently operated by local Australian crew. Despite their submission and public statements, this is in contrast to Qantas Group which relies heavily on foreign labour on its Qantas and Jetstar international services.

Qantas’ submission that Virgin Australia will have no incentive to develop its own international services using Australian crew on these routes if it can “effectively bypass Australia’s laws and regulations” and that by wet leasing “without a time limit, it will be able to permanently use Qatari labour at the expense of Australian” jobs is a remarkable assertion from a company with a well-established history of outsourcing Australian jobs overseas and over a decade of leaning heavily on its own alliance with Emirates. More importantly, it is not reflective of the intentions of the Applicants.

 

[justinbrett]

Looks like the hypocrisy in Qantas' submission to the ACCC didn't go unnoticed. Virgin has included these paragraphs in its response:

But a bit of a flawed argument.

QF launched new routes because this wet lease allowed them to move aircraft from SIN/BKK to the new markets. Had they not had the wet lease these new services couldn’t be launched.

QF just has the scale to allow the wet lease on the most viable routes (ie existing AY ports). I’d also imagine QF would have liked to go dry lease from day 1 if it could.

 

[MooTime]

But a bit of a flawed argument.

QF launched new routes because this wet lease allowed them to move aircraft from SIN/BKK to the new markets. Had they not had the wet lease these new services couldn’t be launched.

QF just has the scale to allow the wet lease on the most viable routes (ie existing AY ports). I’d also imagine QF would have liked to go dry lease from day 1 if it could.

That's a shocking excuse that could be used in any situation.

We're flying somewhere else new so we'll wet least with foreign workforce back over there.

<redacted>

 

[Human]

QF just has the scale to allow the wet lease on the most viable routes

I assume you're NOT trying to argue that QF should be allowed to wet lease because they're bigger than VA!

I’d also imagine QF would have liked to go dry lease from day 1 if it could.

I'd also "imagine" that VA would have liked to go dry lease from day 1 -- if it could. Why would either QF or VA choose wet leasing as their first option? They're only doing it because they have the choice between wet leasing or not flying the route at all.

 

[SYD]

That's a shocking excuse that could be used in any situation.

We're flying somewhere else new so we'll wet lease with foreign workforce back over there.

C'mon mate, severely locked those blinkers on haven't you.

It was sold as a “win win” because AY would have to sack staff and mothball aircraft thanks to “no fly” over Russia etc.

As for VA opening new routes to DOH…really…? I’m happy to fly QR thru DOH to/from somewhere else but close to zero interest in stopping over (well, maybe once).

 

[jase05]

It was sold as a “win win” because AY would have to sack staff and mothball aircraft thanks to “no fly” over Russia etc.

As for VA opening new routes to DOH…really…? I’m happy to fly QR thru DOH to/from somewhere else but close to zero interest in stopping over (well, maybe once).

Doha is a great stop over IMO.
Personally I’ll always try to stay at least a day or 2 in at least one direction, usually on the way home

 

[Human]

As for VA opening new routes to DOH…really…? I’m happy to fly QR thru DOH to/from somewhere else but close to zero interest in stopping over (well, maybe once).

Totally agree. As I said in this thread about 4000 posts ago (that’s what it feels like, anyway), VA would really need to change the Velocity Rewards table so that Qatar is on the same table as VA, making it possible to use Velocity points to fly all the way to Europe on the one booking.

 

[PERLHR]

Wonder if they could possibly end up in VA colours.

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