Qatar Airways to acquire 25% of Virgin Australia

[AVV]

I hope that , as advised that Virgin will not be servicing the in flight service , meals etc. Am glad travelling on QR before this happens. Virgin are the last service airline I would use. Will QR still be a One World carrier? Travelling shortly to Doha. Would only use QR flights and crew.

 

[oz_mark]

I suspect they will want tickets to be open for sale shortly for the upcoming EU summer.

I think there's a lot of dotting i's and crossing t's to happen before they go on sale.

 

[justinbrett]

I hope that , as advised that Virgin will not be servicing the in flight service , meals etc. Am glad travelling on QR before this happens. Virgin are the last service airline I would use.

Likely it will all be QR, however that’s not a guarantee. The QF/AY wet lease has QF catering, bedding, IFE etc. But since VA don’t have their own long haul services that wouldn’t make sense to reinvent the wheel.

Will QR still be a One World carrier? Travelling shortly to Doha. Would only use QR flights and crew.

QR would remain a oneworld carrier however these flights would not be oneworld flights as they are “operated by VA” (under wet lease from QR).

So no QF lounges, no crediting to non-QF oneworld FF programs (unless their rules permit codeshares. QF doesn’t). No oneworld status recognition.

 

[p--and--t]

At the risk of sounding like a scratched record...

You're attempting to make a case (which I think is weak) regarding why it's not necessary that QR be allowed more flights.

That's very different from saying that it's necessary that they NOT be allowed more flights.

Are you saying that Qatar should be stopped and that the Government should deny VA's request?

I don't want to be rude but I am not making a case for or against QR. I like travelling on QR.

I have said, in my view, this is not really about what QR might want or tried to lobby to get.

While QR might be owned by Qatar, they are not the Qatar government, they are an airline. It's what the gov to gov interactions machinations and perceived benefits for the individual nations is what is (allegedly) drives landing rights decisions, not what J or elite passengers might prefer to travel on.

You raised the issue of slots. My understanding is SYD is slot constrained. If that is the case then I can see why there might be a case to allocate slots to a new entrant competitor as opposed to giving additional slots to an existing airline already comfortable in the market place.

We are obviously not coming from the same perspective so I will leave it there.

In order not to bore other readers I will end my observations on this thread.

 

[twinaisle]

QR would remain a oneworld carrier however these flights would not be oneworld flights as they are “operated by VA” (under wet lease from QR).

So no QF lounges, no crediting to non-QF oneworld FF programs (unless their rules permit codeshares. QF doesn’t). No oneworld status recognition.

Finally someone who gets it.

 

[MooTime]

Jim Chalmers has already stated he likes the QR VA extra flights idea.
He as I understand has a major influence in the decision so imo it's as good as sign sealed delivered.

Just every process with gov moves at snail pace.

Interested how they'll sell flights for next northern summer. Start selling them what I'm Nov/Dec at a guess, usually many get snapped up 10-11 months out. The QR/VA seats may be very good value over other carriers, it'll be attention grabbing that's for sure.

 

[simmomelb]

Interested how they'll sell flights for next northern summer. Start selling them what I'm Nov/Dec at a guess, usually many get snapped up 10-11 months out. The QR/VA seats may be very good value over other carriers, it'll be attention grabbing that's for sure.

I agree. I'd put money on flight booking availability going live in the next month or two.
With the caveat *pending gov approval.

 

[RooFlyer]

I agree. I'd put money on flight booking availability going live in the next month or two.
With the caveat *pending gov approval.

I wonder how far that can be pushed under Australian consumer law? I mean you can offer anything for sale with the qualifier subject to certain approvals.

Not saying it’s inappropriate in this case and I’ve seen it many times on flights I’ve booked domestically in Australia but I’m just wondering how the high or low the hurdle is to get approval before you can say that it’s for sale

 

[simmomelb]

I wonder how far that can be pushed under Australian consumer law? I mean you can offer anything for sale with the qualifier subject to certain approvals.

Not saying it’s inappropriate in this case and I’ve seen it many times on flights I’ve booked domestically in Australia but I’m just wondering how the high or low the hurdle is to get approval before you can say that it’s for sale

According to the ACCC...

In Australia, selling airline tickets that are “subject to government approval” typically means the airline has provisional approval to operate on a particular route but hasn’t yet received final approval from the relevant government authorities. This practice is generally allowed, but airlines must clearly communicate the provisional status to customers to avoid misleading them.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) enforces regulations to ensure transparency and protect consumers from misleading practices. If an airline fails to obtain the necessary approvals and the flight cannot operate, the airline must provide refunds or alternative arrangements for affected customers.

 

[ben95]

subject to government approval” typically means the airline has provisional approval to operate on a particular route but hasn’t yet received final approval from the relevant government authorities

In the Australian context this usually means the airline has been allocated the Australian side frequencies by IASC and landing and depature time from the airports. Then the airline can put the ticket on sale with "subject to government approval" while it finalises the remaining paper work with the destination country. Let's say it's an uncontested application at IASC after FIRB approves the 25% investment, I'd say no chance this gets put on sale before the christmas/new year holidays.

It certainly has happened that the other country rejects the application due to either procedural or political reasons and the flight had to be postponed or withdrawn.

 

[moa999]

Great 15min vid from Simon of Flightformula that covers the history.
Hilariously most of it filmed in front of Jetstar's hq.

 

[tmdl]

With the increase of flights both QR & VA (wet-lease) could QR open its own lounge in places such as MEL or SYD

From memory in MEL there is still a spot where the old CX lounge was or maybe they take the Marhaba lounge / The House and convert it?

 

[ben95]

With the increase of flights both QR & VA (wet-lease) could QR open its own lounge in places such as MEL or SYD

Even with 2 flights per day from QR and VA that still seems to be a small amount of flight for a lounge, given there’s already the QF lounge for OW carriers.

Unless of course QR is able to get VA to add lounge offerings to its short haul international flights then it becomes a more viable operation. Or QR can strong arm the likes of CX/CZ which it also hold a minor stake into ditching the QF/Marhaba lounge and use the QR lounge but I don’t see that happening. If all QR equity stake carriers join forces it’s something like close to 10 flights per day which will be plenty to make a lounge profitable.

 

[justinbrett]

With the increase of flights both QR & VA (wet-lease) could QR open its own lounge in places such as MEL or SYD

From memory in MEL there is still a spot where the old CX lounge was or maybe they take the Marhaba lounge / The House and convert it?

That would be interesting as it would be a oneworld lounge, so the QF hoards are welcomed and thus quickly overrun. Even if restricted to J/F there’s still a lot of oneworld flights. It doesn’t really matter if QR “strong arms” CX due to the oneworld lounge policy.

I think that’s why non-QF oneworld lounges don’t currently exist in Australia.

 

[SYD]

With the increase of flights both QR & VA (wet-lease) could QR open its own lounge in places such as MEL or SYD

In theory they could, but QR “premium” lounges are usually reserved for F/J PAX (and maybe their own status PAX?).

For SYD, if there are 3 or more daily flights then they’ll be similar to SIN where they have a lounge - in addition to QF F & J, BA lounge and technically a CX lounge. But probably also more OW flights overall in SIN v SYD?

From memory, CX never had a lounge in SYD (I could be wrong) and MH closed their lounge. QF PAX can also use the EK lounge.

 

[tmdl]

In theory they could, but QR “premium” lounges are usually reserved for F/J PAX (and maybe their own status PAX?).

For SYD, if there are 3 or more daily flights then they’ll be similar to SIN where they have a lounge - in addition to QF F & J, BA lounge and technically a CX lounge. But probably also more OW flights overall in SIN v SYD?

From memory, CX never had a lounge in SYD (I could be wrong) and MH closed their lounge. QF PAX can also use the EK lounge.

First time flying out of Sydney next week so really dont know their lounges well but was thinking it may be something QR could do since there is space in MEL and could try to go h2h with EK

 

[justinbrett]

. QF PAX can also use the EK lounge.

Some. Not ones going to JNB or the Americas. Which is probably about half of them!

 

[justinbrett]

I think the only way it could work is to open a non-QR branded lounge that’s exclusive to QR and VA long haul pax. That way they don’t have to let the masses in.

Alternatively make it a VA branded lounge, but that would require VA to fund lounge access for short haul international. This is getting very VA1 and we know how that ended.

At the end of the day lounges don’t really make airlines money, the current setup for QR isn’t pushing any pax away to other airlines, so what’s the motivation for opening a new lounge?

The only way the EK lounge works is the geographical restrictions, and that’s something QR can’t do thanks to oneworld rules.

 

[MooTime]

I don't believe VA / Bain have ever hinted at int lounges, nothing, not even in the community surveys they send out.

Something would have to really change and it wouldn't be happening anytime soon I imagine.

VA mid tier so not all perks on the table.

It is what it is.

 

[simmomelb]

I don't believe VA / Bain have ever hinted at int lounges, nothing, not even in the community surveys they send out.

They are looking at it.

A survey was just sent out this week, to selected customer (not the community surveys)