Qatar Airways to acquire 25% of Virgin Australia

[Saab34]

It most likely will be 777/350.
Happy to be proven incorrect though.

I’ll take 350!

 

[jase05]

QR is phasing out F completely anyway

QR boss was splashed all over the news in our last trip to Doha and said that F was very much in their plans still

 

[Human]

QR is phasing out F completely anyway

Apparently not true. They’re planning to install first class on some, at least, of their 777Xs

Qatar Airways Boeing 777X: What Should We Expect?

Qatar Airways will eventually fly a lot of Boeing 777Xs. Here's what we can expect from these jets at Qatar Airways.

onemileatatime.com

 

[jrfsp]

It most likely will be 777/350.
Happy to be proven incorrect though.

Do we know if specific aircraft will even be leased?

As opposed to leasing for a service, where any number of aircraft can operate it and then be rotated through DOH with other QR flights.

 

[Viridis]

I’d imagine BA will be cut free completely when their deal is up for renewal. Can’t see ACCC approving it.

Apologies for the ignorance, but BA will be "cut free completely" from what?

BA and QR have a very close relationship with flights, Avios & ownership

 

[ben95]

Apologies for the ignorance, but BA will be "cut free completely" from what?

Presumably he meant the current JV between QR/BA/IB.

I don't see why ACCC would be against it. What's BA bring to the table if it were to operate as a compeitior to QR? 1 daily SYD via SIN, not much in the grand scheme of things when you look at the major participants/JV in the market (SQ, EK+QF, QR+VA)

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

It could be. But it could not be.

QF on AY has its own IFE, catering and bedding.

True, but QF also is well established flying its own metal to/from Singapore and already has ops set up to manage the soft product on both ends.

VA would effectively have to start from scratch, so "sub-contracting" the soft product to QR seems plausible, and that's even before considering whether QR has a preference to preserve its own brand image.

I suspect the flights will look all but indistinguishable from QR's native flights on the same routes, but am prepared to stand corrected.

 

[justinbrett]

Presumably he meant the current JV between QR/BA/IB.

I don't see why ACCC would be against it. What's BA bring to the table if it were to operate as a compeitior to QR? 1 daily SYD via SIN, not much in the grand scheme of things when you look at the major participants/JV in the market (SQ, EK+QF, QR+VA)

Yes but you need to look at is as whether ACCC will sign a QR, BA, IB and VA JV. Getting a bit hefty.

Cutting BA lose might see them join up with MH or CX and provide more competition.

For the same reason I doubt ACCC would allow EY join the EK/QF JV.

 

[Saab34]

I assume they will run the second daily flight BNE/SYD late arvo arrival and early evening departure. Melbourne I wonder if they might run an early AM departure like EK if they intend to go three daily.

 

[RooFlyer]

Sorry, I'm a bit behind play:

The authorisation is for five years.

Interim authorisation. Final to come. Could have any conditions on it. Approval now is so VA can start marketing for the peak season next year. They have accepted that they may have to refund/make alternative arrangements if final approval isn't forthcoming.

Lounge issues aside, isn’t it just a normal QR flight? They are providing the lease to VA so wouldn’t everything just be standard QR? Aside the Flight Number.

No reason for that. look at QF/AY.

As far as pax are concerned, buying VA ticket, its 100% VA until they actually board the plane and see the QR uniforms. Catering has been loaded - could be any standard. Amenities could be anything. Its a VA flight.

QR code-sharers get whatever everyone else gets.

Id be very surprised if in-flight service wasn't closely aligned with QR.

I think it needn't be.

How them about developing a market where VA offer 'low regular fares'; no lounge access in Australia; in DOH you get one of their lower standard ones. VA standard catering, (anyway, not QR). Lower-grade amenities on board. No wi-fi (like QF on AY).

Might get a new cohort of pax from VA to DOH expecting to pay less and accepting less than 'full service' because they are saving a thousand or so. QR connects them onto Europe on their normal fares, normal service, usual profit. QR get their lease fees on the cheaper VA flight.

As per their current Oz model, sorta mid market.

At least on start up to get the market going. Later align more closely ...

 

[drron]

Yes but you need to look at is as whether ACCC will sign a QR, BA, IB and VA JV. Getting a bit hefty.

Cutting BA lose might see them join up with MH or CX and provide more competition.

For the same reason I doubt ACCC would allow EY join the EK/QF JV.

The BA/IB/QR JV will still operate as now. ACCC has had no problems with it. Presumably the had some input as there is no BA codeshare on QR flights into SYD.
But there will not be BA codeshares on the QR/VA flights I would presume.

 

[justinbrett]

The BA/IB/QR JV will still operate as now. ACCC has had no problems with it. Presumably the had some input as there is no BA codeshare on QR flights into SYD.
But there will not be BA codeshares on the QR/VA flights I would presume.

I believe the restriction on BA codesharing to SYD was removed when it was last renewed.

 

[henrus]

They've gone above what the legal requirement is from what I can see, which is simply a refund and nothing more.

Nope section 5 which is listed on the ACCC court enforceable undertaking says if they don't operate these new VA/QR flights they need to rebook or offer refunds. If a passenger doesn't find that to be "suitable" then they need to reimburse for non refundable expenses (other flights, accomodation, out of pocket non refundable expenses etc) in addition to the flight refund.

Finally and the most interesting is that they need to notify passengers/agents within 48 hours of cancelling these flights and create a "appropriately resourced and dedicated team" to manage cancellations/rebooking. One of these call centre criteria is that things need to be managed in a "reasonable timeframe". This final one is an interesting one because I'd say reasonable is less than 1 hr wait time and refund within 5 business days (it's not specified but I'd like to know what the ACCC considered reasonable here).

The ACCC has set these enforceable policies and both VA and QR have signed onto them meaning if they are denied or if they don't go ahead then they are on the hook for the costs.

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/public-registers/documents/Court%20enforceable%20undertakings%20provided%20by%20Applicants%20-%2028.11.24%20-%20PR%20-%20AA1000679%20Virgin%20Qatar.pdf?ref=0&download=y

 

[zainman]

Wonder what the timing for the 3rd QR flight to/from MEL will be

Assume the BNE/SYD ones will be departing in the afternoon like the current one from MEL

 

[Saab34]

Wonder what the timing for the 3rd QR flight to/from MEL will be

Assume the BNE/SYD ones will be departing in the afternoon like the current one from MEL

They might switch the ADL tag for Sydney perhaps and push it to Canberra again?

 

[jase05]

They might switch the ADL tag for Sydney perhaps and push it to Canberra again?

I wouldn’t rule out QR pushing for extra flights into Australia on top of the VA flights either

 

[moa999]

The real fun will be when you fly on a QR marketed and operated flight...
Under the OW rules you still should have access to QF lounges despite QR not wanting it an QF totally against it.

That's no different to the situation at many airports where the airline recommends a lounge, but the smart traveller knows they can access a different lounge under oneworld class of service.

 

[Saab34]

I wouldn’t rule out QR pushing for extra flights into Australia on top of the VA flights either

They have always had an application with the government active regardless. I recall they have one still before the government today. I would expect them to be granted one bilateral from that. Doing some research, it appears they have only ever been granted one bilateral at a time.

To get an extra 4 bilaterals would probably take 10 years plus.

 

[p--and--t]

I wouldn’t rule out QR pushing for extra flights into Australia on top of the VA flights either

What's to stop them getting "VA" to run more flights to DOH under either a wet lease or dry lease arrangement?

I haven't read the application in full but does it (or will the eventual approval) state a specific number of flights they are limited to?

 

[jase05]

They have always had an application with the government active regardless. I recall they have one still before the government today. I would expect them to be granted one bilateral from that. Doing some research, it appears they have only ever been granted one bilateral at a time.

To get an extra 4 bilaterals would probably take 10 years plus.

I think ideally in the long run they would like 3x daily’s into Sydney. Possible 2 into SYD and 1 into WSI so by time that is built hopefully they have secured another bilateral