Qatar Airways to acquire 25% of Virgin Australia

[SCM]

Probably another point to consider, if you're living in Europe, it will be impossible to get the correct amount of SCs flying QR from Europe to Asia (ex Australia), since those flights won't be codeshared, right?

 

[AFF Editor]

I've started a new thread specifically for discussion of VA's new flights to DOH, which went on sale today:

Thread 'Virgin Australia flights to Doha now on sale'

Dec 12, 2024

Europe on sale:

Europe flights on sale

www.virginaustralia.com

• AIRwin
• Replies: 306
• Forum: Virgin Australia | Velocity

• 

 

[Abbaskip]

I’d like some new VFF features such as booking fly ahead online

I'm almost certain this is by design. Fly Ahead is a bonus, and they want you to call or do it at the airport. It's to discourage reliance on it IMO

 

[Sprucegoose]

I'm almost certain this is by design. Fly Ahead is a bonus, and they want you to call or do it at the airport. It's to discourage reliance on it IMO

Yes, always dangerous to rely on unenforceable 'entitlements'.

 

[ben95]

Not sure if this should be going into the Doha flights on sale thread or this one but there's an interesting development re the application for frequencies to DOH.

The Commission has written to the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts

and in the letter

c) that Virgin Australia’s planned operations are allowed under the Australia-Qatar bilateral air services arrangements.

Don't recall seeing this being required for most frequencies allocation QF applies to.

Qatar - 3 December 2024

The International Air Services Commission (the Commission) has received an application from Virgin Australia requesting an allocation of 28 frequencies per week in each direction, to operate passenger services on the Qatar route. From June 2025, Virgin Australia plans to operate daily services...

www.iasc.gov.au

 

[Bagpuss]

Not sure if this should be going into the Doha flights on sale thread or this one but there's an interesting development re the application for frequencies to DOH.



Don't recall seeing this being required for most frequencies allocation QF applies to.

Qatar - 3 December 2024

The International Air Services Commission (the Commission) has received an application from Virgin Australia requesting an allocation of 28 frequencies per week in each direction, to operate passenger services on the Qatar route. From June 2025, Virgin Australia plans to operate daily services...

www.iasc.gov.au

I think they are just box ticking / covering themselves after the uproar after Qatar were kicked back a few years ago.

 

[henrus]

Don't recall seeing this being required for most frequencies allocation QF applies to.

Ouch, I agree that doesn’t seem standard and the fact that they want the departments advice to confirm VAs setup is above board is interesting. Maybe it’s a new step but also we haven’t really seen this sort of thing before as QF operated their own aircraft to Dubai so no wet lease was needed, the only thing I can think of is some of the pacific island routes QF operated with alliance wet leases?

 

[p--and--t]

Not sure if this should be going into the Doha flights on sale thread or this one but there's an interesting development re the application for frequencies to DOH.



Don't recall seeing this being required for most frequencies allocation QF applies to.

Qatar - 3 December 2024

The International Air Services Commission (the Commission) has received an application from Virgin Australia requesting an allocation of 28 frequencies per week in each direction, to operate passenger services on the Qatar route. From June 2025, Virgin Australia plans to operate daily services...

www.iasc.gov.au

I would have thought it should be standard practice to ask the gov at each end if it was all ok with them and it met the terms of the bilateral agreement.

 

[justinbrett]

I would have thought it should be standard practice to ask the gov at each end if it was all ok with them and it met the terms of the bilateral agreement.

The letter is just a long winded way of asking “hey, do wet leases count?”

 

[brett-au]

I've not read the entire thread, but could Qatar, I mean Virgin start adding other flights now that SYD-DOH has the green light?

SYD-JNB or SYD-CPT in South Africa?
SYD-BOM or SYD-DEL or SYD-BLR in India?

Something that will eat away at QF's dominance?

 

[justinbrett]

I've not read the entire thread, but could Qatar, I mean Virgin start adding other flights now that SYD-DOH has the green light?

SYD-JNB or SYD-CPT in South Africa?
SYD-BOM or SYD-DEL or SYD-BLR in India?

Something that will eat away at QF's dominance?

With what aircraft?

 

[oz_mark]

I've not read the entire thread, but could Qatar, I mean Virgin start adding other flights now that SYD-DOH has the green light?

SYD-JNB or SYD-CPT in South Africa?
SYD-BOM or SYD-DEL or SYD-BLR in India?

Something that will eat away at QF's dominance?

Can't see it happening while they need to wet lease QR aircraft,

 

[jase05]

I've not read the entire thread, but could Qatar, I mean Virgin start adding other flights now that SYD-DOH has the green light?

SYD-JNB or SYD-CPT in South Africa?
SYD-BOM or SYD-DEL or SYD-BLR in India?

Something that will eat away at QF's dominance?

QR don’t have a stack of aircraft sitting around.

 

[ben95]

It appears that the government is inclined to approve the QR/VA deal.

Virgin Australia's proposed operations are allowed under the Australia - Qatar bilaterial air service arrangements.

Qatar - 3 December 2024

The International Air Services Commission (the Commission) has received an application from Virgin Australia requesting an allocation of 28 frequencies per week in each direction, to operate passenger services on the Qatar route. From June 2025, Virgin Australia plans to operate daily services...

www.iasc.gov.au

Pure spectulation but based on the fact that the signatures and dates are filled in by hand seems like Mr. Wolfe had to see futher instruction from his superior before signing and sending the letter.

 

[Warragul]

Pure spectulation but based on the fact that the signatures and dates are filled in by hand seems like Mr. Wolfe had to see futher instruction from his superior before signing and sending the letter.

That isn't an indicator of further instruction. Most formal correspondence from agency to agency seniors are like that. Someone else writes it and the signatory adds the 'personal' touch is generally how it goes. It's effectively code saying they have actually read it.

 

[oz_mark]

Pure spectulation but based on the fact that the signatures and dates are filled in by hand seems like Mr. Wolfe had to see futher instruction from his superior before signing and sending the letter.

Looks normal for inter-department comms.

 

[justinbrett]

It reads to me that it will be approved. Department said wet leases count, and that’s the magic words ISAC were looking for.

 

[Saab34]

It reads to me that it will be approved. Department said wet leases count, and that’s the magic words ISAC were looking for.

Which seems to indicate that they don’t need an end date. These flights will probably go on forever, or until, QR gets more bilaterals allocated over time then somewhat they can operate without a lease.

 

[HS-TQE]

Which seems to indicate that they don’t need an end date. These flights will probably go on forever, or until, QR gets more bilaterals allocated over time then somewhat they can operate without a lease.

IASC agreements typically last 5 years. Chances are QR may get a slight increase in bilateral over time, removing the need for VA coded wetleases when it comes to renew. Combine that with VA staff concerns and chances that may not be renewed past 2030.

 

[justinbrett]

Which seems to indicate that they don’t need an end date. These flights will probably go on forever, or until, QR gets more bilaterals allocated over time then somewhat they can operate without a lease.

I’m sure either QR or VA will get tried of the arrangement before that. We’re not privy to the financials but either VA is not going to make a lot of money from this (wet lease fees are high) or Qatar will be operating the services at a relative loss. If they’re successful either VA will want full control (and profit) or QR will want to cut out the middleman. It’s not an arrangement that can be enduring.

I’m sure the lease isn’t binding between the parties, so QR could pull the pin much earlier if it finds greener grass elsewhere.

Certainly wouldn’t be using the word “forever”. Not really a term that applies to aviation.