Qatar Airways to acquire 25% of Virgin Australia

[justinbrett]

Sorry, I think its silly to say inter alia QR overpaid or the relationship isn't what it could be, or not having VA codeshare through to Europe is a mistake or the deal is 'shoddy'.

It's silly to point out obvious issues with the investment? One that is objectively constraining VA's reach in the international market?

Or it just doesn't personally bother you so you don't care (you've said as much).

I would have thought its obvious that its in QR's self interest to make VA2, its investment, a roaring success; their self-interests are nicely aligned.

But you don't do stuff like this to make money or a great return overnight, so have a little patience and you may yet get your 'selling ex Europe'.

So why not let VA sell flights to pax in both directions? Is it really that hard for QR to play nice?

They have a JV FFS, it's not like QR is going to lose out. But the more VA can grow their brand to overseas markets, the better chance they have of standing on their own feet. I'm not sure any international airline has been successful only flying pax in one direction.

Its been quiet because (almost) everybody knew it and it hasn't previously needed to be spelled out.

I'm surprised you admitted to that.

The thing that annoys me about not being able to book VA codes easily is that VA are expecting us to book VA codes to retain status (and for lifetime status). How do they expect us to earn/retain if they make it so complicated (or in some cases impossible) to book?!

Exactly, and although RooFlyer isn't personally affected there are a lot of people who want to book Europe-Australia-Europe, or one way Europe-Australia, even if they do live in Australia.

 

[elanshin]

My final word (hopefully ) on this is just to say I reckon the people at Bain and the people at QR know what they are doing in both the investment and aviation space and the many, many, many faults you find in the arrangements won't be.

Sorry, I think its silly to say inter alia QR overpaid or the relationship isn't what it could be, or not having VA codeshare through to Europe is a mistake or the deal is 'shoddy'.

What exactly do we know about details of 'the deal'?

There could be anything in the Sale and Purchase Agreement; cheap options to QR on IPO; cash support for VA2 later; using QR's balance sheet for new aircraft; agreement to QR and Bain share opportunities globally going forward; VA supported further to fly within the Pacific. How can you declare the deal 'shoddy' when we know virtually nothing about 'the deal'?



I would have thought its obvious that its in QR's self interest to make VA2, its investment, a roaring success; their self-interests are nicely aligned.

But you don't do stuff like this to make money or a great return overnight, so have a little patience and you may yet get your 'selling ex Europe'.



Its been quiet because (almost) everybody knew it and it hasn't previously needed to be spelled out.

I think as long as QR doesn't come in with a spite based attack on QF (which I don't expect) and try to bankrupt QF through their sovereign wealth, I have absolutely no issue with QR (hopefully ) making VA better nor expect them to make a tonne of bad decisions made.

 

[philr2000]

Not sure if 'new news'...but it looks now there are 4 seats available in Business on a tonne of flights on the VA1 Syd-DOH Virgin/Qatar flight from Oct onwards. Would be a game changer if this holds

I haven't checked other states

 

[aus_flyer]

Not sure if 'new news'...but it looks now there are 4 seats available in Business on a tonne of flights on the VA1 Syd-DOH Virgin/Qatar flight from Oct onwards. Would be a game changer if this holds

I haven't checked other states

Absolutely no Business seats to be found ex BNE. Very disappointing.

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm surprised you admitted to that.

<redacted> As I said, its been perfectly obvious to everyone, except maybe for yourself: Investments get made to benefit the investor. The investment will pay back better if the investor helps the investment vehicle and the investment vehicle grows. Pretty basic.

As for the rest - <redacted>I can't see anyone else here having a problem with the lack, but 'maintain the rage'.

 

[justinbrett]

Odd reply to the bit you quoted (you may like to re-read)

I think it went over you head, but let's leave that there.

As I said, its been perfectly obvious to everyone, except maybe for yourself: Investments get made to benefit the investor. The investment will pay back better if the investor helps the investment vehicle and the investment vehicle grows. Pretty basic.

Yep, and QR is taking short term gains for itself rather than let VA grow and expand to an international market, something that's virtually a pre-requisite to being an independent international airline.

As for the rest - there seems to be a bit of an obsession with the codeshare bit. I can't see anyone else here having a problem with the lack, but 'maintain the rage'.

Nope, you're just not getting it. Once again, nothing to do with codeshares. VA can't sell tickets to half the market. That half gets forced to buy with QR.

I don't know how to make it any simpler to understand, but clearly you just want to argue on something that is quite objective. So if anyone's maintaining the rage...

 

[RooFlyer]

Yep, and QR is taking short term gains for itself rather than let VA grow and expand to an international market, something that's virtually a pre-requisite to being an independent international airline.

Gee, the thing has only just got going. Are you really thinking that this is it ... no more routes, no nothing? Really?

I don't know how to make it any simpler to understand, but clearly you just want to argue on something that is quite objective. So if anyone's maintaining the rage...

Sorry, I've just been trying to explain simple business and investment rationale. Gets frustrating when the simplest concepts are apparently not understood, or misunderstood. I've been trying to explain that its in QRs interest that VA2 do as well as it can. But you keep portraying wicked QR with its foot on VA2's neck.

There is much more to this than just catching planes (no matter how sold/codeshared). And plenty of time for the whole plot to come out. Patience is a virtue.

Enough.

 

[justinbrett]

Sorry, I've just been trying to explain simple business and investment rationale. Gets frustrating when the simplest concepts are apparently not understood, or misunderstood. I've been trying to explain that its in QRs interest that VA2 do as well as it can. But you keep portraying wicked QR with its foot on VA2's neck.

Again just because people don’t agree with you doesn’t mean they don’t understand. This whole argument started by you misinterpreting my post which was a factual observation and question about why it was so. If you don’t want to answer (or even get the question right) perhaps skip on to the next post.

 

[anat0l]

QR seems like the kind of airline where they don't have to worry too much about sourcing capital - if they want something, they just front up the money, easy.

What would stop them from simply pumping lots of money into VA to bring the best product ever (maybe some of QR's own products and services into VA)? After all, didn't VA court in QR to tap into a much more financially stable (or solid) foundation?

Will we see VA adopt Avios... or even join IAG?

 

[elanshin]

QR seems like the kind of airline where they don't have to worry too much about sourcing capital - if they want something, they just front up the money, easy.

What would stop them from simply pumping lots of money into VA to bring the best product ever (maybe some of QR's own products and services into VA)? After all, didn't VA court in QR to tap into a much more financially stable (or solid) foundation?

Mainly because thats not how QR has been operating with their investment MO so far in other airlines. Also, it's less VA (the airline) at work here and more Bain the private equity company. What Bain wants isn't necessarily the long term or even 5 year success of VA. They want a return on their investment and be out of their position in a short time frame whilst making a tidy sum.

Will we see VA adopt Avios... or even join IAG?

No. The day we see that is the day OW breaks apart. Right now there's still quite strong ties in OW that aren't QR centric. (BA - AA, AA-QF, whole Pacific ring of airlines etc).

 

[jase05]

The day we see that is the day OW breaks apart.

I agree it won’t happen but I wouldn’t be upset if OW broke apart

 

[HS-TQE]

The question about VA adopting Avios has been asked quite a number of times on this forum and on other 'blogger' sites such as AusBT/ET. It's very unlikely considering Velocity has been reportedly (per media) been their most 'profitable' revenue earner for the whole VAH group.

The most people may get in the future is a new "Velocity/Avios transfer" program being implemented with a 1:55 transfer rate, potentially replacing the existing Velocity/Krisflyer transfer program.

 

[RooFlyer]

The question about VA adopting Avios has been asked quite a number of times on this forum and on other 'blogger' sites such as AusBT/ET. It's very unlikely considering Velocity has been reportedly (per media) been their most 'profitable' revenue earner for the whole VAH group

If you change the name and make the FF currency inter-operatable and redeemable with other airlines, would that necessarily make it less profitable? (genuine question). "In theory" commodities that are more flexible are more valuable - ie the price VA might sell its avios to CC companies etc; people wanting to earn avios (ie fly Virgin).

 

[elanshin]

If you change the name and make the FF currency inter-operatable and redeemable with other airlines, would that necessarily make it less profitable? (genuine question). "In theory" commodities that are more flexible are more valuable - ie the price VA might sell its avios to CC companies etc; people wanting to earn avios (ie fly Virgin).

I think it depends on how its done. For example if by opening Avios as a transfer but suddenly SQ comes back and goes screw that we're pulling the plug, i think that's a net loss.

If things remained the same then i believe it would be better for Avios, but would Virgin's existing Star A partners like it if Velocity can also suddenly book OW.

I strongly suspect many VFF earners use it as a proxy for KF. If KF is pushed out and SIA group decides to launch more ways to earn KF easier in Australia, VFF may lose out much bigger.

 

[RooFlyer]

I strongly suspect many VFF earners use it as a proxy for KF. If KF is pushed out and SIA group decides to launch more ways to earn KF easier in Australia, VFF may lose out much bigger.

Yes, that's mostly how I use my Velocity points (transfer to krisflyer) and I wouldn't want that taken away, plus VFFers can easily get premium QR seats through to Europe, so on balance I'd be happy with the status quo

 

[stm1sydney]

but let's leave that there.

Mate, please take your own advice and just let it go already.

 

[anat0l]

I strongly suspect many VFF earners use it as a proxy for KF. If KF is pushed out and SIA group decides to launch more ways to earn KF easier in Australia, VFF may lose out much bigger.

I kind of do this, as it's easier to get lots of VFF rather than the same in KF, even if that means that, on balance of things, it might be less economical to use VFF for getting KF than accumulating in KF directly.

Suffice to say, if they got rid of that transfer option, or increased the number of VFF required for KF, or restricted the option to status holders only, that'd hurt.

 

[Human]

Suffice to say, if they got rid of that transfer option, or increased the number of VFF required for KF, or restricted the option to status holders only, that'd hurt.

I agree. I'm at the stage where whenever I'm earning Velocity points I'm thinking about how many KrisFlyer points it equals. So if a credit card is offering an 80,000 Velocity points sign-up bonus, I'm thinking that it's getting me 50,000 KrisFlyer points: still a pretty darn good sign-up bonus if you ask me!

 

[serfty]

... just let it go already.

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