QF confirms removal of PE to SIN

[Isochronous]

How many times do we have to go through this? CX, JL, and SQ all have something QF doesn't have - that is connections from Australia to long haul flights via their hubs in Asia. It's the long haul flights that support the big dollar premiums for PE.

Geographically, Qantas does have PE to Asia, as in far western Asia, ie. DXB. But for its destinations in what we consider Asia (ie eastern part of Asia) it has no connections to long haul flights, and people (as in enough people, some do, but it seems not enough) don't seem to be willing to pay 2x-2.5x the price of an economy fare for a 7-8 hour flight. Maybe NRT will work as it is further, but I know between SIN & MEL I would not pay $2k to sit in premium economy for a 7 hour flight, if economy is $800. Now if PE was only $1k, I would, but is that profitable for an airline?

Maybe in 12 months time, when QF is back making lots of money (haha - although the capacity war does seem over), and sees a good return from the capital investment in upgrading the 330's to include PE , I will be happy to eat my words. But in the meantime, it seems the carriers most successfully deploying PE do so on the long 12hr+ journeys, with the ability to fill unfilled seats at the last minute by discounting shorter sectors (like BA do between SYD & SIN).

And how many times do I have to ask the question? What did QF do to market its PE product generally, including on Asia routes? I willingly pay $1.5-1.8k for PE on HKG-MEL QF and it seems popular. I know plenty of people who connect from BNE and MEL specifically because they want to fly PE, since they are averse to Y but cannot afford $5k to fly J.

QF have a great PE product but it is largely their own fault that they have not marketed it well on Asia routes. They should stop blaming the consumer and start looking in the mirror.

 

[JohnK]

And HKG to go soon as well.

Makes no sense to give the newer aircraft to JQ and then replace all the Asian routes operated by better aircraft with A330 configurations.

 

[Foreigner]

And how many times do I have to ask the question? What did QF do to market its PE product generally, including on Asia routes? I willingly pay $1.5-1.8k for PE on HKG-MEL QF and it seems popular. I know plenty of people who connect from BNE and MEL specifically because they want to fly PE, since they are averse to Y but cannot afford $5k to fly J.

QF have a great PE product but it is largely their own fault that they have not marketed it well on Asia routes. They should stop blaming the consumer and start looking in the mirror.

Sounds like knee-jerk decisions by QF of late.

 

[moa999]

And how many times do I have to ask the question? What did QF do to market its PE product generally, including on Asia routes? I willingly pay $1.5-1.8k for PE on HKG-MEL QF and it seems popular. I know plenty of people who connect from BNE and MEL specifically because they want to fly PE, since they are averse to Y but cannot afford $5k to fly J.
QF have a great PE product but it is largely their own fault that they have not marketed it well on Asia routes. They should stop blaming the consumer and start looking in the mirror.

The problem is a PE seat takes up around 1.6x the floorspace (width - 8 across, versus 10 across) and pitch (38-40" versus 31") plus costs more in catering, luggage allowance etc.
Reality is i suspect they need to charge almost double a Y fare for PE to make sense.

And HKG to go soon as well.
Makes no sense to give the newer aircraft to JQ and then replace all the Asian routes operated by better aircraft with A330 configurations.

Better aircraft?? These 8-10 y/o A330s are replacing 25 y/o 747 dinosaurs.

Sounds like knee-jerk decisions by QF of late.

Again. This has been very obvious from the fleet plan, that the retirement of the 747s and 767s, and the A330s coming back from JQ would mean lots more A330s on a number of both international and domestic routes. When you subtract the A380 routes, and allocate the remaining 747s for the real long-hauls like JNB, SCL, NRT, it was pretty obvious that Asia and HNL were going to go to an A330 product.


Now I agree with the upcoming refurb and new Business on the A330 QF has a chance to put in PE, but seemingly has chosen not to.
I suspect this is mostly because with the much larger footprint of the new business, and a PE cabin, you wouldn't have much room left for Economy in the small

 

[JohnK]

Better aircraft?? These 8-10 y/o A330s are replacing 25 y/o 747 dinosaurs.

Are you trying to compare an A330 to a 747? A330s are not in the same league even if the 747s are 25 years old.

 

[TomVexille]

Are you trying to compare an A330 to a 747? A330s are not in the same league even if the 747s are 25 years old.

Agreed. The QF hard product in the 747s is superior to what they have put in the A330. For the passenger 747>A330.

 

[boomy]

BA have a good PE product. Cheaper as well

It should be cheaper, it's not as good as QF.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Kind of like other things SQ does that get glossed over - SQ006 in TPE for example. There are people out there that would swear that SQ have never had a fatal crash.

Just over the past 3 years, they had 4 runway excursions (MUC, RGN, 2x SIN including 1 by a freighter), dropped engine parts in CPH, dropped a slat panel somewhere between SIN and AKL, hit an aerobridge in SYD, and put itself onto a collision path with another plane by going against ATC instructions near IAH.

Imagine if that was QF - the media would be having a field day.

 

[samh004]

More likely they ignore the customer and just remove the route.

I recall they said the routes they operate now make money for them... but if the 747's are going to be retired eventually, I wonder what the game plan is for routes that require a 4-engined jet? They don't have enough of them! It seems there is no plan... which is ridiculous if the route is profitable with an older aircraft.

 

[Isochronous]

I recall they said the routes they operate now make money for them... but if the 747's are going to be retired eventually, I wonder what the game plan is for routes that require a 4-engined jet? They don't have enough of them! It seems there is no plan... which is ridiculous if the route is profitable with an older aircraft.

Then why not just keep the 744s if they still make money - e.g. monopoly routes like SYD-JNB and SYD-SCL.

And HKG to go soon as well.

Makes no sense to give the newer aircraft to JQ and then replace all the Asian routes operated by better aircraft with A330 configurations.

You think they will shift SYD to A330 long term when they actually fill a 744/A380?

 

[samh004]

Then why not just keep the 744s if they still make money - e.g. monopoly routes like SYD-JNB and SYD-SCL.

You think they will shift SYD to A330 long term when they actually fill a 744/A380?

They have to retire the current 744's at some stage... What then?

As for the A330's, they do allow them to increase frequencies to more than 1 flight a day.

 

[TomVexille]

Then why not just keep the 744s if they still make money - e.g. monopoly routes like SYD-JNB and SYD-SCL.



You think they will shift SYD to A330 long term when they actually fill a 744/A380?

Smaller aircraft = reduced capacity = higher fares, if they were already filling the plane.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Smaller aircraft = reduced capacity = higher fares, if they were already filling the plane.

Smaller aircraft = Less silver and orange paint required when the "transformation" happens.

 

[TomVexille]

Smaller aircraft = Less silver and orange paint required when the "transformation" happens.

Nah, I reckon they'll still be white and red, just with a small logo by the boarding door that reads "Operated by Jetstar" :shock:

 

[JohnK]

You think they will shift SYD to A330 long term when they actually fill a 744/A380?

I am not surprised by anything Qantas does at the moment.

They pulled out of PER and ADL without trying something different.

 

[Awesom Andy]

SYD-SIN is being progressively downgrade from what used to be a 747 and an A333 to a mix of A333 and A332. I wonder how long they will keep this up for without cutting one of them or repainting one of them in orange.

 

[JohnK]

SYD-SIN is being progressively downgrade from what used to be a 747 and an A333 to a mix of A333 and A332. I wonder how long they will keep this up for without cutting one of them or repainting one of them in orange.

Wasn't it an A380 at some point?

 

[OATEK]

And how many times do I have to ask the question? What did QF do to market its PE product generally, including on Asia routes? I willingly pay $1.5-1.8k for PE on HKG-MEL QF and it seems popular. I know plenty of people who connect from BNE and MEL specifically because they want to fly PE, since they are averse to Y but cannot afford $5k to fly J.

QF have a great PE product but it is largely their own fault that they have not marketed it well on Asia routes. They should stop blaming the consumer and start looking in the mirror.

While I can see the logic in having a regional config that only covers J/Y, especially if they were day flights, it will only hold as long as the opposition don't steal pax. I flew QF127 (747)/128 (380) in W a few months ago, and both flights were very full, with the 2 spare seats in W going to an onboard op-up, with pax also sitting in the 2 seats in Y that they moved from so either covering over-booking or moving them up from below. While I didn't walk through downstairs Y, some people near me at the luggage carousel were commenting about how full the flight was downstairs.

So I will be surprised if QF remove W from that route with Cathay competing. For SIN the only real competition for W seems to be BA, and that may not last. Lots of the search options with BA are pushing me at SYD-HKG-LHR code sharing the first leg with CX, and then the A380 from HKG. So IMHO QF will need to think very hard about giving up capacity to BA/CX on the HKG route.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Wasn't it an A380 at some point?

QF31/32 was in the morning, so I usually wouldn't be able to see it. Although for the short period when QF1/2 operated through SIN, there was the A380 with the QF5/6 operated by a 747.

After the EK "virtual takeover" of the European routes and the end of FRA, they started with a double daily, with a 747 (QF5/6) and A333 (QF81/82). The 747 started making way for an A333, and the A333 used on QF81/82 is now starting to get downsized to an A332.

 

[yohy?!]

think its inevitable the Orange Star will be appearing on SYD-SIN sometime soon, Y fares are just too low at present for QF to cop such low yields at present (due to competition from Scoot and others)

at least if its a 787 theyll have a product advantage and hopefully lowest possible operating costs if they crew it from BKK or SIN.