QF domestic 28-day advance purchase Business Class - not worth the pain

[stm1sydney]

Don't bother about lodging a complaint. You have LTG in the bag, now it is time to move on to airlines you might actually enjoy flying with.

 

[Quickstatus]

Don't bother about lodging a complaint. You have LTG in the bag, now it is time to move on to airlines you might actually enjoy flying with.

Thats the most significant benefit of LTG - you can patronise other airlines without losing status.

 

[Forg]

Thats the most significant benefit of LTG - you can patronise other airlines without losing status.

It's interesting you say that, made me think a bit about what I've observed over the last decade-and-a-half.
Workmates with LTG with QF have, until semi-recently, all been treated so well that they frankly didn't want to make any changes. Being based in Sydney the F lounge is great, the F&B onboard was pretty decent, the staff definitely went out of their way to ensure LTG & P1 folk were treated well (I was with one of these guys when he got a 'phone call from QF alerting him to his discount-Y domestic flight being 30min late).

But ... I've heard murmurings of wanting to switch alliances. One of the guys in particular felt he'd been messed-around more than once (I can't remember the situation, sorry, but it was something like being charged change-fees as well as difference-in-fare costs a few times on fully-flexible fares & needing to call QF to get the fees refunded), and that stuff like that used not to happen … last I spoke to him he'd called SQ to see about transferring his point balance & even status (can't recall whether they would or not on the status).

Why all the above TLDR? Well, because it seems that QF used to maintain loyalty by LTG customers by giving them a service that made looking elsewhere rarely worth it … but whether through an active policy decision or a lack of management, that treatment seems to be backing off. Seems a bit odd, given that they'd need to offer LTG for the purpose of being competitive among customers that fly a lot.

 

[Quickstatus]

Almost no ticket actually entitles the holder to move to a different flight at no cost.

Yeah, that's actually wrong, flexi economy and business on Qantas domestic do allow changes at no cost, depending on available fare classes.
It's all in the fare conditions.

You raised flexibility to change without cost. I'm talking about the same issue. The tickets do allow flexibility to change without cost, with caveats like needing to have the same fare class. The fact that there many be other costs, e.g. to change fare class, does not mean the original ticket did not include the flexibility to change for no cost.

@Vic
We are reallly on the same page
But I did not raise flexibility to change without cost. I said the above - that for most tickets there is a cost to change. You said it was wrong. But what you and I are saying is the same thing. Im saying there is a cost for most tickets which is less misleading than saying a lot of tickets it is free to change with the disclaimer of "depending on fare class availability". You are saying that there it is free or no charge to change depending on fare class availability.

The problem with most airline customers (me included) is we they don't read the fine print. Qantas here does not say it is free to change, just that changes can be made" with a disclaimer to read the fare rules. This is a more accurate way of portraying the cost to change. In fact any portrayal to say that most tickets will incur no charge or is free to change with a disclaimer "depending on fare class availability" might be reasonably construed as misleading.

 

[Ade]

It most certainly doesn’t.

Nah, it's not that great. I think the coffee at the lounge is much better than on-board

 

[Ade]

Don't bother about lodging a complaint. You have LTG in the bag, now it is time to move on to airlines you might actually enjoy flying with.

Good point, actually

 

[Quickstatus]

It's interesting you say that, made me think a bit about what I've observed over the last decade-and-a-half.
Workmates with LTG with QF have, until semi-recently, all been treated so well that they frankly didn't want to make any changes. Being based in Sydney the F lounge is great, the F&B onboard was pretty decent, the staff definitely went out of their way to ensure LTG & P1 folk were treated well (I was with one of these guys when he got a 'phone call from QF alerting him to his discount-Y domestic flight being 30min late).

But ... I've heard murmurings of wanting to switch alliances. One of the guys in particular felt he'd been messed-around more than once (I can't remember the situation, sorry, but it was something like being charged change-fees as well as difference-in-fare costs a few times on fully-flexible fares & needing to call QF to get the fees refunded), and that stuff like that used not to happen … last I spoke to him he'd called SQ to see about transferring his point balance & even status (can't recall whether they would or not on the status).

Why all the above TLDR? Well, because it seems that QF used to maintain loyalty by LTG customers by giving them a service that made looking elsewhere rarely worth it … but whether through an active policy decision or a lack of management, that treatment seems to be backing off. Seems a bit odd, given that they'd need to offer LTG for the purpose of being competitive among customers that fly a lot.

I suppose the individual experience can be different for the many and varied reasons of travel. AFF here has a smattering of stories of LTG travellers who believed that LTG provide little benefit and a best fare of day with any airline provided an overall uptick in travel experience. Imagine not having to fly only with one airline, being able to utilise the routes and timetables of many airlines rather than one, fly direct, cheapest fare of day, etc etc. LTG is the license to fly anyway you want.

BTW, LTG does not entitle entry to FLounge.

 

[Forg]

BTW, LTG does not entitle entry to FLounge.

Indeed; but when the airline's treatment of the LTG customer is such that the customer defaults to that airline & only looks elsewhere when that airline doesn't suit, that customer's usually going to be P or P1 as well. True, it doesn't always follow (eg. people who used to travel a lot for work & no longer do).

 

[Quickstatus]

Indeed; but when the airline's treatment of the LTG customer is such that the customer defaults to that airline & only looks elsewhere when that airline doesn't suit, that customer's usually going to be P or P1 as well. True, it doesn't always follow (eg. people who used to travel a lot for work & no longer do).

Correct!, the WP, WP1 and CLPO who are incidentally LTG are still wedded to the airline.
My CLPO friend is also LTG and says he hates flying. I suspect when he retires, his LTG won't mean much. My suspicion is that for many, LTG is achieved toward to twilight of a flying career and similar sentiments may be harboured.

 

[CaptJCool]

Indeed; but when the airline's treatment of the LTG customer is such that the customer defaults to that airline & only looks elsewhere when that airline doesn't suit, that customer's usually going to be P or P1 as well. True, it doesn't always follow (eg. people who used to travel a lot for work & no longer do).

Except on domestic it’s QF, VA Jetstar or Tiger perish the thought.... so it’s a lack of competitors plus a decent loungecnetwork that drives business their way.

As for international, clearly that’s a different story. Safest airline in the world goes a long way to get wavering punters in causecits generally not the fare pricing and definitely not the chicanery of change fees and fare difference.

And the 28 day advance purchase J isn’t ordinarily available so I can get the snags faced of changes on the day. Like all these things, they could be changed at the stroke of a pen, like when JASAs vanished but they aren’t.

Fully flexible has a unique airline definition that could well do with an ACCC Review. That said any sales fares or 28 day advanced purchase will come with unknown T & Cs which few silly people read

 

[TomVexille]

“Your aircraft has great coffee too”

It most certainly doesn’t.

The Nespresso on the VA A330s isn't bad

 

[Quickstatus]

Fully flexible has a unique airline definition that could well do with an ACCC Review. That said any sales fares or 28 day advanced purchase will come with unknown T & Cs which few silly people read

Agreed. FFF (fully flexible fare) is misleading and often lead to expectations that it means flexible and that flexible comes at no additional cost.

QF doesn't call it fully flexible though. It is called "Flex" unlike the adjective "flexible". Its just the name of a Fare but with a connotation of free flexibility. Could easily call the 4 QF fares (Sale, Red-Edeal, saver, flex) something else (bronze, silver, gold, platinum or ABCD)

In the context of this thread, my beef is that QF doesn't tell you the Fare Class your ticket belongs to, in the e-ticket. I think this should be mandatory.

 

[kermatu]

“Your aircraft has great coffee too”

It most certainly doesn’t.

I think it's their worst video for many years.

 

[Quickstatus]

“Your aircraft has great coffee too”

It most certainly doesn’t.

Im lucky I do not partake in the coffee religion. So my expectations there are zero - I assume all coffee is bad.

 

[Max Samuels]

Dear Max, I feel sorry for the situation you were put in and as @levelnine mentioned, a very well put complaint. Kindly take this to Qantas and I hope that they respond in a better way that just offering apologies and some Qantas points as a consolation.

I have faced similar situations on SYD-MEL routes and noticed that Qantas prefers to fly with an empty J cabin than offer the empty seats to it's valued loyalists.

Re your thoughts on Virgin, my mates who all fly Virgin have said all positive feedback and the service intimacy is way better than Qantas

Good luck with your efforts in taking this complaint to Qantas. Let this thread know how you go.

Ok so I have an update.... I sent Qantas an email via their complaint portal and was called back within 10 minutes of pressing "send" - which I have to say is quite impressive.

The lady I spoke to was nice enough and was sorry about the way it was all handled. She said their were a lot of notes in my booking from the various people I spoke to.... (un?)surprisingly she said that they have received this kind of feedback before - that the website doesn't allow the user to choose anything other than what is being offered in each class. She said she would pass my comment on to digital.

Ironically, the only way to choose a specific fare class is via a 3rd party - Qantas Sales or a Travel Agent - something that Qantas actively try to discourage through the imposition of fees and the promotion of credit cards that give 3x points etc when booked direct via the website.

On a side note, this whole debacle revealed to me a previously unknown (unknown to me at least) way of accruing Status Credits on Qantas for almost 1/2 the price of actually flying them.... still really dirty with them, and determined not to fly them for a while, the other day I booked Jetstar flight from BNE to MEL (VA was waaaaaaaaay to expensive). I discovered that if you add a Max Bundle, for as little as $182 you get the equivalent of a QF Flexi (which is about $550). That means 1200 QF points and 60 status credits, for less than a QF Red-e deal (about $211). It is also fully refundable (in the form of a credit voucher).

 

[Max Samuels]

BTW, LTG does not entitle entry to FLounge.

Correct. BUT it does give you access to Biz lounges on oneworld everywhere, many (if not most) are combined First/Biz anyway. And even standalone Biz lounges on many airlines (eg Cathay's Hong Kong lounges) are excellent. However in America, AA's Flagship First lounges have been expanded to accept OW Sapphire too - originally it was only Emerald but I have noticed the past 2 years or so they let in Sapphires. As I do most of my travel in the USA anyway, the only thing I lose when ditching QF Plat status is F Lounge access.... and to be honest, I am kind of bored with them anyway...

 

[Ade]

Ok so I have an update.... I sent Qantas an email via their complaint portal and was called back within 10 minutes of pressing "send" - which I have to say is quite impressive.

The lady I spoke to was nice enough and was sorry about the way it was all handled. She said their were a lot of notes in my booking from the various people I spoke to.... (un?)surprisingly she said that they have received this kind of feedback before - that the website doesn't allow the user to choose anything other than what is being offered in each class. She said she would pass my comment on to digital.

Ironically, the only way to choose a specific fare class is via a 3rd party - Qantas Sales or a Travel Agent - something that Qantas actively try to discourage through the imposition of fees and the promotion of credit cards that give 3x points etc when booked direct via the website.

On a side note, this whole debacle revealed to me a previously unknown (unknown to me at least) way of accruing Status Credits on Qantas for almost 1/2 the price of actually flying them.... still really dirty with them, and determined not to fly them for a while, the other day I booked Jetstar flight from BNE to MEL (VA was waaaaaaaaay to expensive). I discovered that if you add a Max Bundle, for as little as $182 you get the equivalent of a QF Flexi (which is about $550). That means 1200 QF points and 60 status credits, for less than a QF Red-e deal (about $211). It is also fully refundable (in the form of a credit voucher).

Thank you Max for the update.

Re Jetstar Bundles - yea, I've been using them for a while now - was checking SYD-MEL on Y with QF, RED-e-Deal fares are totally $390 return with 1600 points & 20 SC, checked the same on JQ roughly $460 return with MAX bundles added offering 2400 points & 40 SC. For only $50 more one can get double credits. Sounds fine to me. One would miss the lounge, especially in airports like SYD, MEL where LCC fly out of a different terminal to VA or QF. But guess it's ok

 

[Vic]

On a side note, this whole debacle revealed to me a previously unknown (unknown to me at least) way of accruing Status Credits on Qantas for almost 1/2 the price of actually flying them.... still really dirty with them, and determined not to fly them for a while, the other day I booked Jetstar flight from BNE to MEL (VA was waaaaaaaaay to expensive). I discovered that if you add a Max Bundle, for as little as $182 you get the equivalent of a QF Flexi (which is about $550). That means 1200 QF points and 60 status credits, for less than a QF Red-e deal (about $211). It is also fully refundable (in the form of a credit voucher).

We really need to include the jetstar base fare to make a comparison. because both the $550 and $211 you quote include the flight and the points/status. the $182 only includes the points/status, not the flight. So if the base jetstar fare was $368, I'd take the $550 Qantas fare. In fact, if the base jetstar fare was $300 I'd take the qantas flight.

BTW flying Jetstar is still the same as flying with Qantas, qantas gets the profit.

 

[Max Samuels]

We really need to include the jetstar base fare to make a comparison. because both the $550 and $211 you quote include the flight and the points/status. the $182 only includes the points/status, not the flight. So if the base jetstar fare was $368, I'd take the $550 Qantas fare. In fact, if the base jetstar fare was $300 I'd take the qantas flight.

BTW flying Jetstar is still the same as flying with Qantas, qantas gets the profit.

The price I quoted was the base AND the bundle - that's why such a good deal! The base was $90 or something like that and the bundle was $85 I think.

There is no logic to JQ pricing.... I just booked an equivalent MEL-SYD on JQ (base and bundle) and it cost 2x as much as MEL-BNE

 

[Vic]

The price I quoted was the base AND the bundle - that's why such a good deal! The base was $90 or something like that and the bundle was $85 I think.

There is no logic to JQ pricing.... I just booked an equivalent MEL-SYD on JQ (base and bundle) and it cost 2x as much as MEL-BNE

Thx. Misread the bit about adding the bundle for "as little as $182".

Still flying jetstar is the same as flying qantas. you're not really avoiding qantas if you use jetstar.