QF J class anti-downgrade strategy

[TomVexille]

TBH I just cannot believe that you guys are now seriously considering factoring in extra day before / after your scheduled flts just in case QF boots you out of your confirmed / ticketed seat - mind boggling.

Agreed. If I'm a day late back to work because the airline stuffed up, my work is okay with it.

 

[GalaxyNexus]

I wonder if travel insurance policies has a downgrade protection clause (we'll give you $$$$ if you get downgraded).

 

[Mr_Orange]

Agreed. If I'm a day late back to work because the airline stuffed up, my work is okay with it.

Mine too, but there are awful lot of people for whom that would not be OK.

 

[OzEire]

Actually - I can go one better - if its possible book a fully refundable fare to the same destination on another carrier (ensuring a cash refund is possible upon cancellation on day of flight - which I think is the tough part), then normally you would cancel the fully refundable fare in the usual situation that QF does not downgrade you. But in the unlikely even that you do get an operational downgrade, whats to stop you flying the other carrier (i.e. JL or say SQ or CX) to your destination? Obviously calling your credit card company immediately and launching a disputed transaction "service not provided" for the amount of the QF fare? A sort of "self insurance" policy. Return flights could be structured the same way with the added bonus that an operational downgrade by QF on the return flight back into Australia would have QF in the hole for the entire return airfare if the disputed transaction sticks - I wonder if QF would be more willing to negotiate a fair outcome if they didn't have your money?

Now why do airlines oversell seats again??

EW,

Surely you see the irony in suggesting that people should deliberately no-show on a spare ticket every time they fly, then also question airline overbooking strategy ?

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Agreed. If I'm a day late back to work because the airline stuffed up, my work is okay with it.

Yeah there is that but I was kinda thinking if you dudes are contemplating adding extra day before and after travel dates on your multi $K J flts cause you are wary that the carrier is going to boot you from your confirmed / paid and ticketed seat - well maybe you should consider booking another airline? This is QF in the year 2014 - not Air Congo in 1947 - again mind boggling!

 

[love_the_life]

Chances of being downgraded are low, however the following things help
1- have a seat selected
2- check in as soon as possible
3- Select your meals via Q-eat ( if on your route) 7 days before travel
4- If you have status that will help ( ie a silver would be kicked off before a Gold if all other things are the same like fare type)

Things they look for when downgrading a passenger - It is a combination of one or some of the below
1- have they checked in ?
2- are they on a connecting flight inbound ? ( often flights can be delayed resulting in miss connect )
3- TCP - They do not like to change travelling parties
4- fare type - a full J fare will have preference over a discount or reward fare
5- Airline status - the higher you are the less chance of getting downgraded
6- booking date

But QF would not outline their downgrade 'order' - being status means nothing given what has happened on other threads. So apart from OLCI at T24, no other real strategy and I can see that becoming a bunfight.
Perhaps the best advice is to not be an older person who looks like they won't fight back. Too late for me though I would kick up a right royal stink

 

[knasty]

This is why I always prefer to travel on an airline which services a route multiple times per day. I feel 'safer' flying CX Syd to HKG with 4x daily vs QF for example.

 

[eastwest101]

EW,

Surely you see the irony in suggesting that people should deliberately no-show on a spare ticket every time they fly, then also question airline overbooking strategy ?

Yes - my apologies - the irony was a bit subtle. Obviously the fully refundable airfare has gone the way of the dodo with change fees etc on most airlines now.

My point was more, that in the past, an error or overbooking situation would result in you being upgraded a class/cabin or reacomodated/flown on different carrier in a similar class/cabin at the booked carriers cost. With some airlines making this more difficult to do I was just jokingly suggesting an option that gives you the same result, but within the control of the customer, not at the discretion/mercy/T&Cs of the originally booked airline. In my rather "jokey" example it also rather reverses the situation where an airline that practises overbooking is suddenly financially disadvantaged for doing so - rather that making a financial windfall - as we have seen in some recent examples.

As always - there are many different solutions to a customer/service downgrading cabin problem, you can try to self insure or be flexible enough to tolerate the offers of flights the next day, or you can go down the path of prescriptive regulation (such as the EU regulations) with all the consequent costs and consumer protections implicit in that, the social media naming/shaming and bad publicity with ad-hoc fixes (which seems to be the current procedure), or obviously avoid the problem completely by not booking the airline entirely, or alternately make the financial consequences of downgrading pax so financially unattractive that yield management either learns its lesson or sends the airline broke (either way its their choice).

I think williamsf1's post # 18 is the most helpful and practical in describing things that probably are a consideration in the downgrading proccess.

 

[Pushka]

Where is post 18? It seems to have disappeared on tapatalk. I need to know this.

Ok. Found it now. So now like we obsess about booking reward seats the instant they are released, we now need to do the same with OLCI. And people whose flights connect with an international flight open up earlier. Maybe there is an advantage now for RAdeladians who connect interstate.

 

[drron]

I would say the optimal solution to this problem is to allow for flexibility in long-haul trips. By giving yourself a day either side of arrival/departure, if you are downgraded for the flight you'll usually get the option to be put up in a hotel and take the premium seat the next day.

Other than that, have you considered becoming a Platinum One member?

Easily done if you travel once a year or less frequently.

Not so easy to do if you are doing 8-10 day trips to stretch out your annual leave as much as possible.

Well I respectfully disagree with these comments.
We only do 2-3 OS trips each year but all are planned well in advance.Usually a month out a lot of the hotel bookings become prepaid to save some dollars for other expenses.
So if a flight before the last of that trip's itinerary has this happen it is more than just the inconvenience of being downgraded.

Then even if it is the last flight of the trip take my experience of our just completed trip.I had a flight home on a Tuesday.About 2 days into our trip I got an offer for a job starting on the Monday after I returned.No problems and I accepted it.Then 4 days before getting home I got an email saying their situation was desperate so could I start on the Wednesday.So I did.
Now tell me how I was to plan an extra day into my trip.And on a DONE 4 am I meant to have an extra day built in after every flight?
Absolutely not.The answer for the passenger is to have adequate protection and decent compensation.

 

[anna2103]

Just for interest - lots on the BA flyertalk thread about downgrading in F

 

[amaroo]

This is why I always prefer to travel on an airline which services a route multiple times per day. I feel 'safer' flying CX Syd to HKG with 4x daily vs QF for example.

Excellent point! QF are on the endangered list with sooo [-]many[/-] few Int destinations - it's simpler (and, fairer) to fly with another airline....

 

[cambriamarsh]

Mine too, but there are awful lot of people for whom that would not be OK.

Or for who there is a serious cost, esp if self employed.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Just for interest - lots on the BA flyertalk thread about downgrading in F

Must be a mistake, QF are the only airline in the world that downgrades passengers

 

[JohnK]

Ok. Found it now. So now like we obsess about booking reward seats the instant they are released, we now need to do the same with OLCI. And people whose flights connect with an international flight open up earlier. Maybe there is an advantage now for RAdeladians who connect interstate.

Not quite true.

You cannot use OLCI for connecting flight unless it is <24 hours to that connecting flight.

Happened to me last week on BKK-SYD-BNE flights. Couldn't use OLCI the day before for second flight.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Just for interest - lots on the BA flyertalk thread about downgrading in F

Mrs TMA was downgraded from F to steerage (J) on LHR SYD BA flight last year. (Well actually it was me but I refused to fly and told BA to put us up in a London hotel until they could deliver the seats we had paid for, so she took the hit to stop me whinging.). She received a £500 voucher via visa gift card and F pyjamas.

We had agreed ( she believes) to swap at SIN and when we hit to the gate she'd been put back in F for the SYD leg. (Phew that was close!)

I popped around the bulkhead 20 mins after takeoff and she was on to her second glass of Sancerre.

I realised when we got home that one of the issues may have been that the travel agent had actually booked us on separate bookings so not that I excuse the behaviour of BA downgrading a real paying F passenger, possibly they did not realise that we were travelling together. Always double check that we are on the same booking reference after that.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Mrs TMA was downgraded from F to steerage (J) on LHR SYD BA flight last year. (Well actually it was me but I refused to fly and told BA to put us up in a London hotel until they could deliver the seats we had paid for, so she took the hit to stop me whinging.). She received a £500 voucher via visa gift card and F pyjamas.

Surely that wasn't all? I hope that was just the initial restitution you get at the airport.

What about the EU261 rule where people receive more than adequate compensation for their inconvenience?

 

[Sprucegoose]

I simply don't have the personality to accept a downgrade.

 

[TomVexille]

Surely that wasn't all? I hope that was just the initial restitution you get at the airport.

What about the EU261 rule where people receive more than adequate compensation for their inconvenience?

Which if I'm reading it correctly should be 75% of the ticket price...

 

[amaroo]

I simply don't have the personality to accept a downgrade.

LOL, I was tested - passed with flying colours! :mrgreen: