QF Mystery: We can see but the agent can't

[PaulyB]

Having been told countless times by multiple booking agents assisting with OWA booking changes that that flight "isn't available in my class (J)" despite the fact that I can see it, I am looking for the definite reason why this could be.

You like me have probably been blankly told that the system probably hasn't updated. Or sometimes the seats are only for new bookings but these all seem really poor. When the seat is shown as available, is it not false advertising that it is not????
As an example in the attached image, not one of the flights on this day are available in J. There are also CX that are advertised on the same day but also not available.

It's particularly depressing when there is a huge promo and release and still brick walls. (Sigh)

But if there are any answers or strategies to resolve, I'm sure we would love to hear them.

Thnx

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I’ll let the community respond to this suggestion but here’s what I would do if I had the points. Book the said award as a one way then once ticketed give QF a call and tell them hey can you change this segment in my OWA to this flight I booked and refund the taxes and fees I made on the booking.

Unsure if anyone tried such a strategy but a potential option, particularly if you can end up ticketing it!

-RooFlyer88

 

[djkelly69]

What is your flight before this one? (ie. are you attempting to transit HKG, or having a stopover there?)

 

[MelbFlyer]

Having been told countless times by multiple booking agents assisting with OWA booking changes that that flight "isn't available in my class (J)" despite the fact that I can see it, I am looking for the definite reason why this could be.

You like me have probably been blankly told that the system probably hasn't updated. Or sometimes the seats are only for new bookings but these all seem really poor. When the seat is shown as available, is it not false advertising that it is not????
As an example in the attached image, not one of the flights on this day are available in J. There are also CX that are advertised on the same day but also not available.

I have exactly the same issue at the moment, I can see 2 business classic reward seats which I can select online, but agents are stating that it's for new bookings only.

I’ll let the community respond to this suggestion but here’s what I would do if I had the points. Book the said award as a one way then once ticketed give QF a call and tell them hey can you change this segment in my OWA to this flight I booked and refund the taxes and fees I made on the booking.

I'm not too sure about this one, I think it may open up another can of worms.

For the flight that I am looking at, I still have enough points outright to purchase them but I'd rather have my existing booking amended so as to be able to re-calculate altogether.

I am one flight from a full 318k capped OWA (which is the one I can see online), booking separately means 2 separate bookings and therefore not only would I be unable to take advantage of a "re-calculated" 318k capped OWA, I'd have to pay the taxes in a foreign currency too (as this flight doesn't originate in Australia).

I too really want to know the reason that flights which are able to be seen online, aren't able to be seen by agents or why online seats aren't able to be used for existing bookings. Would make everyone's lives so much easier.

Of course, we can contact via FB / Twitter and send screenshots of what we can see (hugely advantageous over calling), but the response time is days, so that's not useful.

Unfortunately it seems the only thing you can do is to dedicate time, patience and HUACA multiple times. I've done that around 20 times over this past weekend alone - still without result but I won't stop.

 

[MelbFlyer]

So I've just called again, and this time got a slightly better consultant who not only pro-actively checked alternatives to the flight that I was looking at (which is visible online but not able to be selected to be changed for existing bookings), but also explained that generally some awards seats that are visible online are either:

1. Available for new rewards bookings only (have been told this many times by many consultants)
and / or
2. "Waitlisted" to be made into a selectable flight for EXISTING bookings (apparently common for some newly released reward seats)

They mentioned that since this seat was only released the other day during the website debacle, that it may take a week for it to be "released" for existing bookings.

Still doesn't make sense though, because at the end of the day, the seat is "available" - I'll still keep checking and calling regardless. Maybe I'll eventually get a consultant who "all of a sudden" is able to access this reward seat for existing bookings.

 

[djkelly69]

Available for new rewards bookings only (have been told this many times by many consultants)

Just out of interest, has anyone ever seen any official policy/statement from QF about certain seats being restricted to new award bookings only?

To me, all of the excuses are just things made up by (or perhaps told to) the phone operators when they don't know the real answer. At a guess I would say most of the issues are really caused by married/divorced sectors or similar policies of the various airlines which aren't well publicised (if at all).

 

[Lynda2475]

I’ll let the community respond to this suggestion but here’s what I would do if I had the points. Book the said award as a one way then once ticketed give QF a call and tell them hey can you change this segment in my OWA to this flight I booked and refund the taxes and fees I made on the booking.

Unsure if anyone tried such a strategy but a potential option, particularly if you can end up ticketing it!

-RooFlyer88

Do not do this. You cannot combine PNRs, you need to get the flight added to your existing PNR in order to benefit from OWA capping.

 

[Phoenix-1]

I've only seen this with married segment issues. Just to echo @djkelly69, are you transiting HKG or stopping over? I'm assuming the latest flight you currently have booked is CX terminating in HKG? And that QF128 HKG-SYD is definitely not visible by agents?

 

[MelbFlyer]

Do not do this. You cannot combine PNRs, you need to get the flight added to your existing PNR in order to benefit from OWA capping.

Yep that's why I'm persevering in HUACA x infinity until I get the classic reward seats that I can (and you could all as well) see online.

I'm one flight change from meeting the 318k OWA business cap and I am not going to do a 2nd booking even despite having enough points outright to buy it, purely because I will miss out on the 318k cap.

The fact that I can cancel the 1 leg on my existing booking and get points / taxes back is irrelevant, because I've already (and will be) paying more points in the end if I did that.

I'm not sure if Hobart agents would be able to assist anymore, but being Bronze I'd have no chance of getting through to this much coveted team.

 

[N860CR]

I’ve never heard of flights being available for “new bookings” only. They’re either available, or they’re not. It shouldn’t be a married segment issue for that route. Are these South African consultants?

 

[Lynda2475]

I think they dont know how (or dont have permission to) to modify OWA/Reward itineraries so they just say that flight isnt available so you will go away.

Ive had 2 overseas agents (one in Fiji and one in South Africa) recently able to help when others have said not possible. Its really lucky to get a competent one.

 

[MelbFlyer]

I think they dont know how (or dont have permission to) to modify OWA/Reward itineraries so they just say that flight isnt available so you will go away.

If they think that's going to make people go away, they should think again.

I'm sure I'm not the only customer to affect their FCR (first call resolution) by having to callback to 'try my luck' with a new consultant.

 

[N860CR]

If they think that's going to make people go away, they should think again.

I'm sure I'm not the only customer to affect their FCR (first call resolution) by having to callback to 'try my luck' with a new consultant.

This has always been my question with offshore call centres. These people are given the bare minimum training and generally lack the ability to operate outside of their very specific roles. So this results in a customer query taking probably 10 times longer to resolve than it otherwise would (not just qantas; Optus, Citi, Westpac, ANZ etc etc). So the end result is the customer being p’d off and a heap of time being wasted. Does this save the company in the long run?

This is why we need a genuine airline ombudsman that costs the airlines money. Do we think Telstra moved everything back onshore because they wanted to do the right thing? Of course not, it was because the TIO escalations were costing more than the saving they got from outsourcing to the developing world.

 

[1022]

This has always been my question with offshore call centres. These people are given the bare minimum training and generally lack the ability to operate outside of their very specific roles. So this results in a customer query taking probably 10 times longer to resolve than it otherwise would (not just qantas; Optus, Citi, Westpac, ANZ etc etc). So the end result is the customer being p’d off and a heap of time being wasted. Does this save the company in the long run?

This is why we need a genuine airline ombudsman that costs the airlines money. Do we think Telstra moved everything back onshore because they wanted to do the right thing? Of course not, it was because the TIO escalations were costing more than the saving they got from outsourcing to the developing world.

My strike rate of agents who have been able to solve problems or add flights to my upcoming OWA vs those who lie/bluff/hang up on me has probably been 1:6. That's a lot of wasted time for me and for Qantas dealing with people ill-equiped to help and wasted time for the rare competent agents who have to undo their colleagues' coughups, spend time back and forth with ticketing and calling me back, etc etc.

Of the two good agents I've had in recent weeks one was in Suva and one in Capetown, so being offshore doesn't necessarily preclude competence.

What might help is if companies directly hired their own (cheap) staff in those places instead of outsourcing to the agency with the lowest tender bid. Sure they need to invest in office space and infrastructure etc, but at least you'd have staff feeling a part of your company instead of simply working for another company who has a contract with the airline. More skin in the game in other words, easier to train and retain etc etc....but then I'm not a CEO looking over my shoulder at my main constituents: shareholders. So of course I'm going to suggest a fluffy, human-centred approach to such things like looking after your staff and customers.

 

[clifford]

What might help is if companies directly hired their own (cheap) staff in those places instead of outsourcing to the agency with the lowest tender bid. Sure they need to invest in office space and infrastructure etc, but at least you'd have staff feeling a part of your company instead of simply working for another company who has a contract with the airline. More skin in the game in other words, easier to train and retain etc etc....but then I'm not a CEO looking over my shoulder at my main constituents: shareholders. So of course I'm going to suggest a fluffy, human-centred approach to such things like looking after your staff and customers.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be part of the real world at the moment.

What makes you think a company such as Qantas, which is only interested in its shareholders and executive, would give a damn in any case.

 

[MelbFlyer]

So I called Qantas again this morning and tried my luck with some morning agents, exact same enquiry - wanting to change 1 leg (final leg) of my 6 leg itinerary with reward seats that I (and definitely you guys too) can see online / book.

4 different responses:

1. Sorry, I can't see the / any reward seats that you can see online at all - they must be only for new bookings and not available for amendment of existing bookings, and the consultant did not budge from this so I ended the call.

(HUACA)

2. Sorry, I can't see the reward seats that you can see online at all - generally when seats are released, half are for revenue / commercial, and the other half for rewards (I was then thinking - I can see the rewards seats online right now - why on earth can't it be changed?!)

(HUACA)

3. Sorry, I can't see the reward seats that you can see online at all - sometimes the system is not up to date and if you try to to continue booking the seats you can see online, it may come up with an error at the end. Obviously I didn't try to book it as it would require payment.

(HUACA)

4. I can see 1 of the 4 flights you can see (not the one I want, but it is an option) - I was like wow okay, so I continued on.

The consultant then mentioned - "but there are reward seats only in economy" (definitely has availability for 2 adults in business online) and the calculated points difference will be the full points amount for 2 adults - 50,400, on top of what you've already paid.

I then explained to the 3rd consultant that the points already paid for, for my current leg was 21,500pts/pp and the alternative is 25,200pts/pp - so therefore only the balance should be payable:

ie. 21,500pts/pp minus change fee of 5k pts/pp = 16,500pts/pp credit

then,

25,200pts/pp to be charged for the replacement flight seats

= Only the difference between 25,200pts/pp and 16,500pts/pp should be charged = 8,700pts/pp

TL;DR for the 4th consultant - I should not be charged the full amount of the points required, only the difference!!

To be honest I'm this close to just booking a 2nd itinerary with the reward seats that I can see online, then have the final leg cancelled for a points refund.

However, I would then miss out on a 318k OWA cap so that's the only thing holding me back and that's why I'm very persistent in having my trip changed to the business reward seats that are visible online.

 

[djkelly69]

@MelbFlyer I would just add in the economy flights into your award if an agent can actually see them. Ignore any conversation about how much extra they want to charge you, as the system will cap itself at 318k if all of the conditions for an OWA are met.

If you are adding new flights they will usually charge the full amount and refund the old amount, not just charge the difference, so in that sense I guess the agent was correct in what they wanted to do.

You can always make changes again later if you want and are brave enough.

 

[Phoenix-1]

Has anyone encountered this on a date change instead of trying to add a leg? (I guess it's functionally similar). I already have a flight booked but want to change the leg. I'm being told this is only available for new bookings.

 

[MelbFlyer]

@MelbFlyer I would just add in the economy flights into your award if an agent can actually see them. Ignore any conversation about how much extra they want to charge you, as the system will cap itself at 318k if all of the conditions for an OWA are met.

If you are adding new flights they will usually charge the full amount and refund the old amount, not just charge the difference, so in that sense I guess the agent was correct in what they wanted to do.

You can always make changes again later if you want and are brave enough.

Yeah it was finally a positive sign that the agent was able to see one of the flights that I could see, but only in economy.

As per the OP, I really question on why this is the case and why there's such a discrepancy in what we can see and select.

Had it been a business seat, I would have asked them to go ahead with the change and "hope" the system re-calculates the correct amount of points to be refunded / charged etc.

What didn't give me confidence however was that the agent only mentioned the "new" charge of 25,200pts/pp instead of taking into account that only the balance between the two seats should be charged.

Had the agent mentioned that only the balance should be charged, I probably would have gone ahead with the change even though it was in economy (although QF economy is better than JQ economy!).

I had previously made a change to my 1st leg which was a CX economy rewards seat - I then was able to change that to a CX business seat, and then again to a QF business seat. Those were relatively smooth and the agent was able to make the changes without mentioning extra charges on top of the points already paid - ie. they knew that there would be a credit of points from the cancelled flight, to be used towards the replacement flight and charged accordingly.

In the case of the CX business seat to the QF business seat, I actually got points and taxes back as the QF seat was less.

 

[CaptainCurtis]

Available for new rewards bookings only (have been told this many times by many consultants)
and / or

Just out of interest, has anyone ever seen any official policy/statement from QF about certain seats being restricted to new award bookings only?

To me, all of the excuses are just things made up by (or perhaps told to) the phone operators when they don't know the real answer. At a guess I would say most of the issues are really caused by married/divorced sectors or similar policies of the various airlines which aren't well publicised (if at all).

There was a Finnair flight I wanted to add to my OWA - showing online, but multiple agents in Fiji told me I couldn't add it to my booking as it was only available for new reward bookings. Eventually got through to NZ or Hobart (can't remember), and they said that was not the case, but rather that there was no availability.