QF PNG Visa failure and who is to blame?

[Melburnian1]

...i was sent on the next flight back to Cairns. I guess i need to take some of the blame...Coming from Sydney i had tho wait 2 days and get on a Jetstar flight as all the flights with Qantas were booked.

Surprising that you didn't travel in a 'rail bed' (admittedly not as good as the former 'Sunlander' proper sleepers) on Queensland Rail's 'Spirit of Queensland' from CNS to BNE and then fly to SYD:

Spirit of Queensland

You had a most unusual experience on your flight but it always surprises me the number of individuals who appear unaware that sometimes, rail alternatives exist when flights go wrong (or the train is a great idea in the first place, as is the case in much of the UK, Europe and Asia and even parts of the USA and Canada, to name a few countries).

The QR (Queensland Rail not Qatar Airways) alternative may have been cheaper than two nights in an hotel and an orange cancer flight. It may also have been speedier, and definitely more comfortable. As a bonus you would see some of the attractive north Queensland country at eye level.

 

[waltervp]

Yes sorry, was a bit harsh. Not normally this negative... Maybe I am. Need to study to midlife crisis manual again. Apologies if I offended anyone and we don't want a negative forum here. May edit/delete my post in hindsight...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

3. Cheers but I'll stick with http://www.airlinequality.com/ratings/qantas-airways-star-rating/

That would be a brave move! Half the stuff they give 4 and 5 stars for is only if - and it's a huge if - the staff are having a good day. unfortunately for QF it's hit and miss whether they actually want to be there, or you're left feeling you'd wished you hadn't bothered.

Seat comfort 4 stars? Really? That takes account of limited legroom in domestic business class, 2-3-2 A330 domestic seating, droopy seats on international business class, and worse, Mk1 skybeds for many flights this year, and still scheduled well into next year? Sure the A330s have been refurbished - but only just. Hardly long enough for to be reflected in 4 and 5 star ratings across the board.

Cabin service efficiency short haul - 4 stars. Really? Cabin crew can barely get to row 3 on a 737 serving meals on a one hour flight. They can't serve pudding on a PER-MEL flight because of 'time restrictions'.

 

[puppysparkes]

Yes sorry, was a bit harsh. Not normally this negative... Maybe I am. Need to study to midlife crisis manual again. Apologies if I offended anyone and we don't want a negative forum here. May edit/delete my post in hindsight...

It sounded colonial is all. That aside, YMMV concerning Qantas. Mid life crisis manual... Welcome to the club, my copy is well worn!

 

[waltervp]

It sounded colonial is all. That aside, YMMV concerning Qantas. Mid life crisis manual... Welcome to the club, my copy is well worn!

Yes, I worked in PNG for a few years and loved working there but is a real challenge mostly due to their bureaucracy. Most professionals won't even go there. I still don't mind going there occasionally but the visa process makes it extra hard and then Qantas... I always try to be supportive of Qantas but am let down by them regularly and find myself flying ABQ - Anything But Qantas - to avoid disappointments at a premium price. Wished I wasn't so bitter.

This thread was titled who to blame, and I blame both!! Hence I couldn't resist.... Back to my hole

 

[ozbeachbabe]

If the checkin staff asked the pax on checkin the purpose of their visit and were told by the OP "to visit family" then there are no issues with obtaining a tourist visa on arrival so airport staff were correct in letting them board the flight. If the pax then changed their story and told PNG Immigration they were there for business and a visa cannot be issued on arrival for that purpose then that passenger has done the wrong thing and the airline gets fined $5,000.00 for something that wasn't even their fault.

I've had valid PNG work visas and been refused to board on Qantas planes because the visa is hard to understand (for Qantas ground staff).

If you have a multiple entry PNG visa it will say something like "valid 12 months from date of first entry" and it can be very difficult to tell when that was in order to ascertain if the visa is still valid particularly if the passenger has heaps of immigration stamps in a well travelled passport. If they do FIFO to POM there will be heaps of PNG stamps never mind any other country visited so it helps if the pax has a post-it note stuck on the page that has the initial arrive stamp by PNG Customs/Immigration.

The visa may say eg "valid for entry by 01 July" so pax may travel the first time 15 June which is prior to the 01 July cut-off for their initial entry so no issues at checkin as it's obvious the visa is valid however it's the subsequent trips that occur post 01 July that can be problematic for airport staff as the next trip may be in August so the CSA looks at the visa that says that pax has to enter (for the first time) by 01 July and it's not immediately clear if that pax has even entered PNG at all unless they can see the arrival stamp for PNG for that first visit on 15 June.

This can be misleading to airline staff who may initially think that the pax is trying to enter PNG on an expired visa.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Surprising that you didn't travel in a 'rail bed' (admittedly not as good as the former 'Sunlander' proper sleepers) on Queensland Rail's 'Spirit of Queensland' from CNS to BNE and then fly to SYD

I love train travel but railbed is a marginal option for the time sensitive. 24 hour trip to BNE and it doesn't run every day. The discounted tickets sell out and $520 one way for a full fare would also pay for a couple of nights for an unfortunate layover in CNS.

If you have a multiple entry PNG visa it will say something like "valid 12 months from date of first entry" ... If they do FIFO to POM there will be heaps of PNG stamps never mind any other country visited so it helps if the pax has a post-it note stuck on the page that has the initial arrive stamp by PNG Customs/Immigration.

IIRC PNG Customs loved overstamping on the page opposite the visa, so the entries on that page wound up being an indecipherable jumble after a while. Luckily my visas had specific dates for start and end.

Cheers skip

 

[downgraded]

The only who to blame is the pax. Only the pax owns the why they are traveling and their own responsibility to be compliant. The airline is only covering their own liabilities.

 

[Peter D]

If the checkin staff asked the pax on checkin the purpose of their visit and were told by the OP "to visit family" then there are no issues with obtaining a tourist visa on arrival so airport staff were correct in letting them board the flight. If the pax then changed their story and told PNG Immigration they were there for business and a visa cannot be issued on arrival for that purpose then that passenger has done the wrong thing and the airline gets fined $5,000.00 for something that wasn't even their fault.

The OP did not change their story and was always traveling for business.

"To visit family" was posted by some one else.

 

[Flashback]

So what I'm interested in more so is ... the airlines apparently cops a fine, but what about the esconder? Do they also get hit with the airfare to be sent back?

 

[pagingjoan]

If the checkin staff asked the pax on checkin the purpose of their visit and were told by the OP "to visit family" then there are no issues with obtaining a tourist visa on arrival so airport staff were correct in letting them board the flight. If the pax then changed their story and told PNG Immigration they were there for business and a visa cannot be issued on arrival for that purpose then that passenger has done the wrong thing and the airline gets fined $5,000.00 for something that wasn't even their fault.

If you have a multiple entry PNG visa it will say something like "valid 12 months from date of first entry" and it can be very difficult to tell when that was in order to ascertain if the visa is still valid particularly if the passenger has heaps of immigration stamps in a well travelled passport. If they do FIFO to POM there will be heaps of PNG stamps never mind any other country visited so it helps if the pax has a post-it note stuck on the page that has the initial arrive stamp by PNG Customs/Immigration.

The visa may say eg "valid for entry by 01 July" so pax may travel the first time 15 June which is prior to the 01 July cut-off for their initial entry so no issues at checkin as it's obvious the visa is valid however it's the subsequent trips that occur post 01 July that can be problematic for airport staff as the next trip may be in August so the CSA looks at the visa that says that pax has to enter (for the first time) by 01 July and it's not immediately clear if that pax has even entered PNG at all unless they can see the arrival stamp for PNG for that first visit on 15 June.

This can be misleading to airline staff who may initially think that the pax is trying to enter PNG on an expired visa.

[Thought I had posted this yesterday but gremlins seem to have intervened.]
That is a most informative post, Obb.
I doubt that I will ever have need of the information - but thank you, anyway. Great stuff.

 

[ajd]

Is it common for carriers to ask questions about the purpose of a visit when assessing visa eligibility at check-in? I've definitely been asked to show visas, proof of onward travel, etc to check-in agents, but I don't recall ever being asked about purpose of travel. Then again, most of the countries I've travelled to provide Australians either with VOA that covers both tourism and business, or no VOA at all - maybe check-in agents are meant to do this for places like PNG?

 

[Himeno]

On my last passport, which was issued before AU started using e-passports, and was covered by the e-passport exemption for the US VWP, I was once flying ICN-NRT-DFW with JL/AA. The JL agent at ICN kept saying it isn't an e-passport, where's the visa? and was trying to block check in on the basis of not having the needed paperwork.

Same passport had a US VWP entry stamp from 3 months before. When I pointed out the stamp, the manager backed down and checked me in.

Also one had a Frontier agent at DEN refuse to believe that I didn't need a visa to visit YVR.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

The visa issue in PNG is confusing and I understand the confusion of the OP.

PNG used to offer visas on arrival for single entry business, multiple entry business and tourism. Not entirely sure of the date (2013 or early 2014) Mr O'Neil decided that AU was being obstinate in not allowing PNG nationals a visa on arrival into Australia so he canned visas on arrival for all visa types for Australian citizens travelling into PNG. That was a mistake, as tourism suffered and PNG is attempting to attract more tourists (and cashed-up Aussies is a no-brainer of a target), so visa on arrival was reintroduced ... but only for the tourist visa, not business visas which still have to be obtained prior to travel.

PNG does however, still permit citizens of many countries (NZ included) to obtain a visa on arrival for tourism and business.

As other have said, the most important rule in PNG is to expect the unexpected. My first trip here was on a multiple entry business visa on arrival which I did phone up and check how much it would cost a few days before travel. It was K250. Between then and my arrival, the Gov't decided they'd like more revenue and bumped it up 100% to K500. When I arrived I tried to tell the young lass that I had rung and checked and she just shrugged and pointed at the ATM. I went to the ATM and it didn't work (nothing unusual). I had K400 on me in cash and some AU$'s as well (not much) so I went to the money exchange booth and luckily they accepted coins and I was just able to get the K500 required for entry basically by emptying out the contents of my wallet.

I fly in or out of PNG basically every fortnight and I know the customs guy in HGU pretty well as a result, even to point of conversation about his grandkids (he picks them up from school and is often late to the airport) and his golf game (which is also often the cause of a delay in customs clearance), yet every time he studies my visa and stamps officiously!

I should also say that in PNG, nothing happens without a form filled out in triplicate and filed with at least 15 different departments. If anyone is familiar with "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" you may remember the Vogons and their penchant for filling out forms ... I'm sure Douglas Adams based them on PNG!

PNG, Land of the Unexpected!

 

[Scout]

I am an AUS citizen and flew into Port Moresby from Brisbane in 2014 as a tourist. I do not recall anything about a visa. I have just checked my passport - it has nothing in it from PNG.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I am an AUS citizen and flew into Port Moresby from Brisbane in 2014 as a tourist. I do not recall anything about a visa. I have just checked my passport - it has nothing in it from PNG.

PNG - Land of the Unexpected.

I've never had a tourist visa so I can't say for sure what the procedure is, but I believe a tourist visa is free but still gets a passport stamp on entry and exit. My current passport is only two years old and rapidly approaching half full (mostly PNG stamps). Thank goodness AU don't stamp anymore or I'd be applying for a new one soon!

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I fly in or out of PNG basically every fortnight and I know the customs guy in HGU pretty well as a result, even to point of conversation about his grandkids (he picks them up from school and is often late to the airport) and his golf game (which is also often the cause of a delay in customs clearance), yet every time he studies my visa and stamps officiously!

If you clear PNG Customs in HGU are you flying in from CNS on a charter or do Airlines PNG have an RPT flight ex CNS?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

If you clear PNG Customs in HGU are you flying in from CNS on a charter or do Airlines PNG have an RPT flight ex CNS?

Hevilift charter from CNS. To the best of my knowledge, Airlines PNG (now rebadged as PNG Air) no longer do AU flights, however I'm sure I read somewhere that Air Niugini are starting a CNS-HGU. I can't for the life of me think where I read that though! HGU Kagamuga has a brand spanking new terminal, which is very nice actually, basic, but nice.

 

[PineappleSkip]

...I'm sure I read somewhere that Air Niugini are starting a CNS-HGU. I can't for the life of me think where I read that though! HGU Kagamuga has a brand spanking new terminal, which is very nice actually, basic, but nice.

Wow, some improvement. What's the lounge like, swanning_it?

Found this announcement about direct BNE-HGU flights. Made according to that other PNG tradition of Ministers making implausible announcements, which are quickly forgotten
Cabinet approves Brisbane flights for Mt Hagen and Alotau | Loop PNG

Cheers skip

 

[waltervp]

Exactly what happened. Qantas was very nice about it and apologetic, but Qantas has let me down numerous times, despite me even being all that frequent a QF flyer because I just am not a very 'lucky' passenger when it comes to my Qantas flights it seems...