QF Ticketed JQ Flight Cancellation

[kangarooflyer88]

And all the associated costs of a court case if the airline doesn’t honour your claim from the outset. VCAT and similar tribunals in other states won’t handle the matter if it’s cth legislation, as we saw from other threads.

And your claim might fail if the operating airline said they were in the process of making alternative arrangements for you, but you jumped the gun.

It really depends on the context I suppose. Certainly we've heard of horror stories with JetStar where passengers were stuck in Bali for a week and most courts wouldn't consider that reasonable accommodations.

If WP is the new NB, SG must be the new Tin.

As someone trying their darnedest to earn Qantas World Platinum status this year, it's situations like this which really make me question whether it's all worth it.

I suspect for something like an IROPS, there is a group of people in some back office within JQ/QF (maybe aided by some computer) who handle the redistributing of pax to other flights. I don't think the call centre agent is empowered to sort out these matters. For example, they may not able to change available seats on other available flights to a different fare class - this is seen when WP are requesting a U seat release. The call centre agent is only able to put in the request. The change comes from a back office operation. It is also possible that they are empowered to make changes within cabin classes for certain fares but Classic rewards fare types may be beyond their pay grade.

Obviously P1 and CLPO travellers have their own special team.

It’s all the same balance sheet JQ/QF you would think they would do what is financially better for them, in many cases that is putting them on a QF flights vs putting up in accommodation overnight etc.

I suppose in the case of HBA, there was only one nonstop QF Group flight left in the day a 4 PM QF service but considering they cancelled the flight around 2:45 PM that really wasn't a viable option. There were connecting flights but from what I saw it would require an overnight at MEL which again doesn't solve their problem. The only real solution was to fork out the couple hundred bucks on partner Virgin Australia to get me back, but at that point I reckon it would be slightly more cost advantageous to put me up in a hotel and cover meals instead.

 

[Quickstatus]

it would be slightly more cost advantageous to put me up in a hotel and cover meals instead.

Why give $$$ to your competitor especially when its cheaper to pay for some vanilla hotel and meal voucher
Don't forget this is a Classic reward - the airline already got paid for the points.Your redemption does not make them any $$$

there was only one nonstop QF Group flight left in the day a 4 PM QF service but considering they cancelled the flight around 2:45 PM that really wasn't a viable option

If there were available seats, it would have gone to higher status passengers and fare paying pax including JQ fares. Classic rewards pax are IMO the bottom of the bottom shelf.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It really depends on the context I suppose. Certainly we've heard of horror stories with JetStar where passengers were stuck in Bali for a week and most courts wouldn't consider that reasonable accommodations.

I dunno about the horror story in Bali. I don’t doubt the passenger spent a week there… but as the thread went on it seems like the passenger took it on themselves to be proactive, didn’t take up the flight options that JQ would have made available to get home way earlier, and then incurred all sorts of other expenses such as new visas. Which should never have needed to be paid.

I’ve had one major disruption with JQ and it was handled perfectly… buses from the airport to the hotel, partial ocean view room in Waikiki, Usd75 food voucher, and calling card home!

A friend two months ago had their JQ flight ex BKK delayed overnight and they were given hotel reimbursement (stayed in their existing accommodation), food paid for, and transfers to the airport.

Their call centres might not be up to scratch, but back office seems to handle these things ok most of the time. (most!)

 

[RooFlyer]

loyal QFF Gold member.

Ah. That might be the problem.

As someone trying their darnedest to earn Qantas World Platinum status this year, it's situations like this which really make me question whether it's all worth it.

What's the answer to your question?

 

[Quickstatus]

the passenger took it on themselves to be proactive

Thats one of the questions of this thread. To what extent should a passenger be proactive.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thats one of the questions of this thread. To what extent should a passenger be proactive.

Depends!

If dealing with a flight on the ticketing carrier, be as proactive as you can. They can often release revenue seats to award inventory, or move you from one revenue flight to another.

If dealing with the issuing airline as the agent, you might have to wait for the operating carrier to put alternative arrangements in place. Calling QF for a cancelled JQ flight might not work being too proactive. Calling QF for a cancelled QF flight is a good idea!

 

[Andy72]

If WP is the new NB, SG must be the new Tin.

I suspect its because you rang up QF and got somewhere non HBA.
Even so, the assumption is that a QF call centre agent is able to provide alternatives which I think is not necessarily correct.

I suspect for something like an IROPS, there is a group of people in some back office within JQ/QF (maybe aided by some computer) who handle the redistributing of pax to other flights. I don't think the call centre agent is empowered to sort out these matters. For example, they may not able to change available seats on other available flights to a different fare class - this is seen when WP are requesting a U seat release. The call centre agent is only able to put in the request. The change comes from a back office operation. It is also possible that they are empowered to make changes within cabin classes for certain fares but Classic rewards fare types may be beyond their pay grade.

Obviously P1 and CLPO travellers have their own special team.

I have had a few delayed Syd - LAX delayed flights and have been told by both the cabin manager and the lounge that its taken care of by a complete seperate team, and upon landing I have had a new boarding pass, including on non one world airlines for missed connections

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Thats one of the questions of this thread. To what extent should a passenger be proactive.

I would argue that it depends on how good the rebooking technology is. I can't comment on Qantas specifically but I can think of some airlines where they proactively will put you on the next best available flight if you are travelling in J or have frequent flyer status. This was the case when I flew Air Canada last year and with United pre-COVID. There were literally computers processing these changes. With Qantas it seems like some pencil pushers in Hobart have to manually make these changes happen and it is not uncommon for things to fall through the cracks.

If dealing with a flight on the ticketing carrier, be as proactive as you can. They can often release revenue seats to award inventory, or move you from one revenue flight to another.

In this case I was lucky that the rebooking link on the JQ manage my booking site worked after a couple of repeated attempts. That being said, and hopefully no one takes this the wrong way, but I'd much prefer taking a QF flight than a JQ flight since it has a better chance of taking off at least from my limited experience flying both JQ and QF.

If dealing with the issuing airline as the agent, you might have to wait for the operating carrier to put alternative arrangements in place. Calling QF for a cancelled JQ flight might not work being too proactive. Calling QF for a cancelled QF flight is a good idea!

I guess my argument here is QF does operate flights between HBA and SYD so in theory it shouldn't be too difficult to switch that JQ flight for a QF flight.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I guess my argument here is QF does operate flights between HBA and SYD so in theory it shouldn't be too difficult to switch that JQ flight for a QF flight.

Two separate companies. It’s not much different to Cathay and Qantas flying the same route.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

What I will say about this whole situation is that I'm pleasantly surprised JetStar offers compensation of up to $200/night for hotel and $30 for meals and other incidentals off the bat. Other airlines I have dealt with might give me a hotel voucher if they have room available at one of their preferred hotels but that's it. I ended up booking the Movenpick Hobart in a Superior room for $199.27/night at the last minute and frankly can't complain (more on that in a Accor review on a separate thread).

Two separate companies. It’s not much different to Cathay and Qantas flying the same route.

Correct but where things are different is that Qantas is the airline for whom the trip is ticketed to so in theory they shouldn't have an issue if my Cathay flight were cancelled to put me on a Qantas flight back. What is needed though is a passenger bill of rights like EU261 or dare I say it Canada's APPR. Right now passengers have to fend for themselves when things go awry and yes whilst it's nice JetStar is offering to compensate me for my hotel and meals, many may not have the luxury to spend an extra day in Hobart (despite its lovely weather). I'll do fine during IRROPs in the sense that I've had this happened to me many many dozens of times now but I think your typical holidaymaker may not be so fortunate.

-RooFlyer88

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What I will say about this whole situation is that I'm pleasantly surprised JetStar offers compensation of up to $200/night for hotel and $30 for meals and other incidentals off the bat. Other airlines I have dealt with might give me a hotel voucher if they have room available at one of their preferred hotels but that's it. I ended up booking the Movenpick Hobart in a Superior room for $199.27/night at the last minute and frankly can't complain (more on that in a Accor review on a separate thread).

Correct but where things are different is that Qantas is the airline for whom the trip is ticketed to so in theory they shouldn't have an issue if my Cathay flight were cancelled to put me on a Qantas flight back. What is needed though is a passenger bill of rights like EU261 or dare I say it Canada's APPR. Right now passengers have to fend for themselves when things go awry and yes whilst it's nice JetStar is offering to compensate me for my hotel and meals, many may not have the luxury to spend an extra day in Hobart (despite its lovely weather). I'll do fine during IRROPs in the sense that I've had this happened to me many many dozens of times now but I think your typical holidaymaker may not be so fortunate.

-RooFlyer88

JQ’s disruption policy is on their website, nice and simple

Qantas is selling you the ticket on JQ or another one of their partner airlines as the agent for that other airline, at least that’s my understanding.

Just because qantas issued the ticket doesn’t mean they can fix every problem, or should accommodate you on their own aircraft. While accommodating you on their own aircraft might be an option in some cases, particularly if QF causes the problem, like failing to ticket in time… if the matter is outside QF’s control you are going to be more limited in your options.

While EU261 would be nice, what would be even better would be the removal of this outdated restriction where the operating airline won’t talk to you and refers you back to the issuing airline. If CX cancels a flight I should be able to call CX, find a replacement, get everything lined up, and then QF reissues the ticket.

At the moment, while CX is willing to deal with QF to sort out arrangements, QF agents don’t always have the interest to do that.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

While EU261 would be nice, what would be even better would be the removal of this outdated restriction where the operating airline won’t talk to you and refers you back to the issuing airline. If CX cancels a flight I should be able to call CX, find a replacement, get everything lined up, and then QF reissues the ticket.

At the moment, while CX is willing to deal with QF to sort out arrangements, QF agents don’t always have the interest to do that.

Or alternative provide a self-service rebooking tool that would allow you to rebook on Qantas and partners in the event of an IRROP. This is what Air Canada provides for disrupted Aeroplan award tickets. I've used said tool a couple of months ago when my flight to Seoul was cancelled, selecting a non-stop Asiana option to replace the connecting Air Canada option I was originally on. Then again, providing this much power to the user may be outside of Uncle Alan's comfort zone.

-RooFlyer88

 

[AIRwin]

Correct it's at 19:35 but with JQ who knows when it will actually depart.

Flight delayed?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Flight delayed?

Til 8:05 PM now!

 

[oz_mark]

What I will say about this whole situation is that I'm pleasantly surprised JetStar offers compensation of up to $200/night for hotel and $30 for meals and other incidentals off the bat. Other airlines I have dealt with might give me a hotel voucher if they have room available at one of their preferred hotels but that's it. I ended up booking the Movenpick Hobart in a Superior room for $199.27/night at the last minute and frankly can't complain (more on that in a Accor review on a separate thread).

Not sure why it's a surprise. It's what Jetstar publish they will do.

https://www.jetstar.com/au/en/help/articles/compensation-and-refunds

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Not sure why it's a surprise. It's what Jetstar publish they will do.

https://www.jetstar.com/au/en/help/articles/compensation-and-refunds

It's a surprise since in my experience, not many airlines offer this type of help. Perhaps that's why JétStar is the luxury division of Qantas.

 

[Quickstatus]

Or alternative provide a self-service rebooking tool that would allow you to rebook on Qantas and partners in the event of an IRROP.

I fail to understand why when people always want QF to come to the party when the issue is with JQ. Or an expectation of a full service when they are flying LCC

JQ provided you with a self service rebooking tool with options. Why should QF then get involved?

EU261

But JQ did provide you with compensation according to their policy which you are aware of.
I do agree that cancellations should have a little more sting in the tail in terms of mandated compensation as a price signal to airlines to lift their game.

 

[Quickstatus]

EU261

But JQ provided you with compensation according to their policy which you are aware of

 

[Ade]

I dunno about the horror story in Bali. I don’t doubt the passenger spent a week there… but as the thread went on it seems like the passenger took it on themselves to be proactive, didn’t take up the flight options that JQ would have made available to get home way earlier, and then incurred all sorts of other expenses such as new visas. Which should never have needed to be paid.

I’ve had one major disruption with JQ and it was handled perfectly… buses from the airport to the hotel, partial ocean view room in Waikiki, Usd75 food voucher, and calling card home!

A friend two months ago had their JQ flight ex BKK delayed overnight and they were given hotel reimbursement (stayed in their existing accommodation), food paid for, and transfers to the airport.

Their call centres might not be up to scratch, but back office seems to handle these things ok most of the time. (most!)

I have also had one major interruption with JQ, HBA-MEL. Actually, it was not JQ's fault. I think a helicopter crashed on the runway at HBA in, I think, 2017/2018 and our JQ out of HBA was cancelled as a result. JQ put us in a hotel for the night, and asked us to pay for the meals etc, which were then reimbursed.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I fail to understand why when people always want QF to come to the party when the issue is with JQ. Or an expectation of a full service when they are flying LCC

Two thoughts here. First it's a Qantas ticket. If I booked direct with JQ you would be absolutely right. But this is a QF ticket which happens to have a JQ operated flight. Second, the cost of the service has nothing to do with service recovery. Don't believe me? Fly EasyJet or RyanAir in Europe. They beat JQ on pricing and by definition are a LCC yet they provide a duty of care to customers in terms of cash compensation, meals, hotels, etc.

JQ provided you with a self service rebooking tool with options. Why should QF then get involved?

Initially that tool didn't work. After the 4th or 5th time of trying it would let me select a new flight. Obviously if you get a cancellation you want to get rebooked right away since there are 100+ other passengers trying to do the same thing and no one wants to spend an overnight in AVV because that's the only option left.

But JQ did provide you with compensation according to their policy which you are aware of.

They will cover the meals and hotels. I won't call that compensation as I'm not being paid extra for the inconvenience. All this does is ensure I didn't incur any extra out of pocket costs due to this IRROP.

I do agree that cancellations should have a little more sting in the tail in terms of mandated compensation as a price signal to airlines to lift their game.

That's how LCCs succeed. If you force them to be an operationally sound airline they will by definition cut all costs. How many millions does JQ burn every year with aircraft on the ground, pilot and crew being compensated because they don't run an operationally sound airline?