QF122 cancelled, then not cancelled, then refuelling with pax on board?

[dajop]

No, the second message came through 30 minutes after the original cancellation text.

So in QF measured minutes, that's practically immediately. Probably didn't cause anyone too much grief, as no-one could have possibly reached customer service over the phone in 30 minutes to reschedule stuff-up their booking.

Imagine how bad it would have been if you could have been able to get through to Qantas (most likely the outsourced call centre in in Fiji or South Africa), straight away without holding. They would have mucked around, reallocated you to a flight leaving Christchurch leaving 3 days later, which you would have to make your own arrangements to get there , only to turn up to the airport and find out it hadn't been re-ticketed by QF, and you didn't have a confirmed booking on the flight.

Instead, whilst on hold your flight was uncancelled and re-scheduled. A time to be grateful that QF inefficiencies work in your favour for once!

 

[RichardMEL]

I perfectly understand it to get a text saying the flight is cancelled and it clearly WAS cancelled for that period and no doubt people had started to try to figure out other plans, accept defeat or run around screaming "I'm a teaput! I'm a teapot!" etc.. totally frustrating for sure. I do tend to favlour TheInsider's explanation though that someone probably quite proactively didn't just sit back and accept it but worked hard to find a solution with the unusual/heavy weather, to keep that flight operational, to get approvals to go via CHC etrc and reinstate the flight. As frustrating as it is I'd say it's actually a bloody good customer service outcome considering the alternative pax were looking at.

I do think this is not a reason to bandy about things like "Could QF get any worse?" though. Many things to complain about and take issue with, but this, clearly caused by the weather (which as all powerful as AJ may well think he is, can't control) and seems flight planning and probably crew scheduling and half a dozen other depts worked to get a solution, while not ideal works.

An to their credit, they did send a text to explain. Sure it would have been far better to not be cancelled in the first place - totally agree, but as I was reading through I was pleasantly surprised at the solution to get plane and pax where they need to be - even if a few hours late.

imo

 

[Quickstatus]

I said it is unacceptable to be texting passengers telling them their flight has been cancelled when it has, in fact, not been cancelled

I prefer the alternative scenario:
Flight gets cancelled and then was put back on when a solution was found.

What about this:
Pilots discover the flight could not operate ZQN-SYD. They contact their operations centre, who then cancel the flight. Then maybe one of the pilots had an “Ah ha” moment and remembers CHC could give them that take off performance for the fuel they needed to carry. They call the ops centre back who promptly reinstates the flight.

 

[CaptainCurtis]

How would anyone outside the airline know that it was actually not cancelled as you allege.

Check-in staff at the airport confirmed the flight was never truly cancelled. Apologies if my posts suggested otherwise, but there was never any suggestion from the airline the flight was actually going to be cancelled. Their own follow up text message said “sorry you may have received an incorrect cancellation message”.

 

[Quickstatus]

Check-in staff at the airport confirmed

That could be interpreted more than one way including the cancelled then reinstated scenario. I would not call Checkin a reliable source of information.

But I still don’t get why it is such a big deal if they did send a corrective message.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

What about this:
Pilots discover the flight could not operate ZQN-SYD. They contact their operations centre, who then cancel the flight. Then maybe one of the pilots had an “Ah ha” moment and remembers CHC could give them that take off performance for the fuel they needed to carry. They call the ops centre back who promptly reinstates the flight.

It sounds like a plausible hypothesis, however one fact precludes this possibility: that they were placed on hold for hours before reaching dispatch in Cape Town. A more plausible hypothesis would be that the pilots looked around for their Costco membership card and couldn't find it so decided to cancel the flight. Then the first officer remembered he could do a 7-Eleven fuel lock to secure the pricing they were looking for at CHC.

-RooFlyer88

 

[NM]

Then the first officer remembered he could do a 7-Eleven fuel lock to secure the pricing they were looking for at CHC.

And take advantage of this deal? Velocity – Earn Velocity Points | 7-Eleven Australia
Is that available for NZ earning as well?

 

[Quickstatus]

It’s interesting that VH-XZI which operated today’s QF121/122 does not have a ZQN-CHC leg. I guess it will be added when it lands at CHC.

And it only departed ZQN at 18:24hrs (16:24 Sydney time) 1:04 late out of ZQN for SYD via CHC for a splash and dash

Note that it did depart SYD for ZQN as QF121 about 2:10 late
@Melburnian1

 

[Franky]

And take advantage of this deal? Velocity – Earn Velocity Points | 7-Eleven Australia
Is that available for NZ earning as well?

Similar, but different. Just had a notification from QF that 'QF11 to LAX tomorrow departs from Gate 9', quickly followed by another which read 'QF11 to LAX tomorrow departs from Gate 24'. I assume they'll have it sorted by the time we get there...

 

[RooFlyer]

Can Qantas get any worse for refuelling their aircraft?? Geez...

... than sending out incorrect cancellation messages. It wsn't a case of situation changing, because:

You literally got sent a text message straight after saying it's not and being operated via CHC.

so its just another screw up, then.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Can Qantas get any worse for refuelling their aircraft?? Geez...

At least they didn't pull a Gimli Glider or Air Transat 236! Canadian Airlines (as in airlines in Canada, not the now defunct CP) are world renowned for stretching fuel efficiency globally. Perhaps Uncle Alan could learn a thing or two from them! No one can glide a fully loaded commercial airliner better than a Canadian pilot!

-RooFlyer88

 

[RichardMEL]

I guess it depends on one's perspective doesn't it? Glass half full - woohoo it's going! - glass half empty - another bloody screw up!

Totally agree - getting a cancel message is not great and I for one would be scrambling to make a new plan or try and find options (and then thinking oh God, I'll be on hold until tomorrow's flight!) and all. Absolutely fully agree that this was bad.

In 30 mins though it was corrected with new information. That's the positive outcome.

Until that 2nd text came in it was a screw up (or perhaps understandable if the heavey weather caused the problem but still so frustrating).. afterwards.. not so much.

For me it;s a reminder that even in this day and age things happen that affect the magic of flight.

And you know if at first pilots or planning declared due to this weather system the 737 can't do it without enough fuel for alternates and whatever - I'd be annoyed but pretty happy they didn't try to push the safety envelope but came up with a viable alternate.

Not QF's finest day for sure, but far, so very very far, from their worst - imo.

(side note that those 320/321's QF is ordering that will operate these routes probably would have no issues)

 

[milehighclub]

Here is my theory on it. Because the flight was rerouted, it was deemed as a cancellation by the system and automatically spat out a cancellation message. I imagine this was the plan along to send it via CHC and QF actually had no intention on cancelling it, but the rerouting caused the drama.

I'd say the lesson for QF would be ready to have the back up message to go instantly if the system cannot be overridden when a flight appears to be cancelled to the system.

 

[Quickstatus]

320/321's QF is ordering that will operate these routes probably would have no issues

Hard to know. ZQN has a short runway whatever the aircraft.

 

[jb747]

Queenstown to Sydney is marginal at the best of times, simply because Queenstown is a short runway, surrounded by hills. The performance limitation is most likely based on single engine terrain clearance (i.e. you have to plan for an engine failure during the departure). But, to make it even better, the weather at Sydney is likely to have a requirement for either extensive holding, or for diversion fuel, or perhaps both.

So, the aircraft cannot carry enough fuel out of Queenstown to make the flight. The alternatives are to cancel, or to insert a refuelling stop.

There is no issue with refuelling with passengers on board. It happens on all long haul flights, and virtually all domestic. Move on, nothing to see here.

 

[CaptainCurtis]

Queenstown to Sydney is marginal at the best of times, simply because Queenstown is a short runway, surrounded by hills. The performance limitation is most likely based on single engine terrain clearance (i.e. you have to plan for an engine failure during the departure). But, to make it even better, the weather at Sydney is likely to have a requirement for either extensive holding, or for diversion fuel, or perhaps both.

So, the aircraft cannot carry enough fuel out of Queenstown to make the flight. The alternatives are to cancel, or to insert a refuelling stop.

There is no issue with refuelling with passengers on board. It happens on all long haul flights, and virtually all domestic. Move on, nothing to see here.

Spot on, captain explained the diversion was due to Sydney weather and the possibility of holding, or diverting to Brisbane (as the same flight did a few days ago).

 

[RichardMEL]

Here is my theory on it. Because the flight was rerouted, it was deemed as a cancellation by the system and automatically spat out a cancellation message. I imagine this was the plan along to send it via CHC and QF actually had no intention on cancelling it, but the rerouting caused the drama.

I'd say the lesson for QF would be ready to have the back up message to go instantly if the system cannot be overridden when a flight appears to be cancelled to the system.

Plausible.

What if, assuming this theory is right, that nobody KNEW the cxl text went out (or did not think of it with the chaos) until they got calls or heard from the company this had happened, and arranged the next text ASAP? Also the time taken to possibly push a system that normally does automated messages like this with a custom message may also take time to organise.

I certainly know from other roles that a system configured to do mostly automated things, such as SMS alerts or whatever of a certain type/format, may not be so easily be accessed - certainly by on the ground ops people - to send to all affected people a custom message.

Now, if something like this was the case then 30 mins is probably a reasonable time.

And obviously this provides for a "feature enhancement" for QF to enable this to happen much more quickly, but probably easier said than actually done.

Of course there are multiple assumptions here.....

also thanks to others for clarifying about the short runway(which I absolutely ignored ) re the 32x series possibly being able to make it. Makes perfect sense. Everyone be glad I am not a pilot, planner or dispatcher

 

[offshore171]

Same weather pattern again today. If anything worse.

Everything coming into sydney is using the east west runway (25). Howling westerlies right now.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/buckle-up-warning-of-gusts-of-100-kmh-for-east-as-bitter-weather-conditions-continue/news-story/10167de4b0cc750947a892788d4948df

 

[N860CR]

"I'm a teaput! I'm a teapot!"

Do we really need to mock their accent?

 

[RichardMEL]

Do we really need to mock their accent?

I was really just referencing The Goodies