QFF programme changes - AGAIN! Can't be good news?

[spaz74]

How I love Qantas, NNNOOTTTT

Well let me see. From 2000 or 2001 when the first big changes occured I was able to get a Tokyo to Bangkok business class ticket for 60,000 points (under the old km`s system). Now three years later the same flight is a staggering 152,500 miles points, Based on miles, this flight has increased by a whopping 391% over three years. Loyalty, I don`t think so!!

Qantas planes are honestly cough compared with other companies and I avoid Qantas like the plague, that is, until they have completely brought in their new fleet and join the 21st century.

As a member of the Star Alliance, I now know where to park my loyalty.

 

[ozmuzz]

Qantas FF Program

Qantas has found a new way to avoid giving points and benefits. Last week I came back from South Africa - no seats on QF064 for a Gold FF, but seats on SA7700 - same plane, in spite of waitlisting on QF064.

I got pre-allocated a middle seat at the back of the plane, and missed out on 40 tier credits and 3,423 cabin bonus points (still got the base points).

Another way Qantas rewards its loyal FF members!!

Give me the oportunity to transfer my Gold FF status to Singapore... quick.

 

[CutSnake]

What a scam!

This is so wrong!

In the past year, Qantas has...

1. Made it easier for low-frequency travellers to reach higher levels of FF membership - devaluing genuine high-frequency travellers in the process

2. Nearly doubled the amount of points required for an upgrade - the thing that most high-frequency travellers do with their points

3. Made Syd-Mel and Syd-Bris FF seats cost fewer points, but going on a substantial trip is significantly more - again, a bonus for low-frequency travellers and of no value whatsoever for us road warriors who want to use our points for upgrades and vacations, not visiting the same cities we go to all the time

4. Made upgrading from discounted seats impossible - EXCUSE ME??? Aren't upgrades made on a space-available basis? What the heck is the harm in upgrading someone who has enough points to a seat that would be vacant anyway??

All this says to me is that Qantas cares about casual travellers far more than their high-value, high-frequency business travellers. As a longtime Platinum Frequent Flyer, I am more than disgusted.

We need competition! Bring on Singapore Airlines!! I'm telling you, my loyalty is GONE. I will be shopping around for my many international business class tickets from now on - screw the points. I want to fly with someone that values my business, not someone who keeps telling me I'm worth less and less to them.

 

[theolecoot]

Hi Guys,

just thought id pop in and let you know whats going on with frequent flyers. Ive had a look at qantas.com.au and this is what i found

firstly- changes effective immeadiately-
* etickets baby! there is no longer the option to purchase a flight on an etktable routing and get a paper ticket- (mainly due to security reasons)

*Family transfers! yay! are finally here, but please be aware that you can only do one once every 12 months, and the internet gives you an exact anniversary date of when you can do it again. However!!! if mary decides to transfer all of her points to her hubby fred, and also their son James' points you can d it! there are no restictions on the amount of points the recipeint can recieve- only that you must transfer a min of 5 000 and a max of 100 000 points

*Top up points! This is something that i wasnt expecting- you can now purchase 'top up points' online at qantas.com.au. now once again you can only do it once every 12 months, and it is a little expensive. now the other conditions are that you must purchase these points so that you can do a flight, and you can only purchase less than 15% of your award flight's cost.

****so as of next year- heres a short run down

1. it will be 2500points to book with a member of the frequent flyer team

2. you can still book online for FREE!! or using anna (heh good luck!!)

3. The award table will be transformed from the current 5 zones into 10 zones of one way travel

4. The frequent flyer flights will be a series of one way trips

5. Loyalty Bonus points will be introduced in place of the upgrade credit system, so if you earn 450 status credits, you recieve a bonus of 5000 points that you can use towards cars, hotels, flights!

6. You will no longer be able to upgrade flights booked as red-e deals, or as they say heavily discounted fares in N, O or Q classes of travel.

7. Now, for the new 10 zone table: like the old one it works on how many miles you travel, so here we go:
(straight from the website)
Award flight tables
Qantas Award table
Zone One-Way Miles Economy Business First
1 0-600 8,000 16,000 24,000
2 601-1,200 12,000 24,000 36,000
3 1,201-2,400 18,000 36,000 54,000
4 2,401-3,600 25,000 50,000 75,000
5 3,601-4,800 30,000 60,000 90,000
6 4,801-5,800 36,000 72,000 108,000
7 5,801-7,000 42,000 84,000 126,000
8 7,001-8,400 48,000 96,000 144,000
9 8,401-9,600 56,000 112,000 168,000
10 9,601-15,000 64,000 128,000 192,000
Plus 2,500 for Assisted Award booking fee (if applicable)

Additional charges and taxes are payable on Award flights at the time of booking and are subject to change.

so i think thats pretty much it, if you have any more :?: drop a line to qantas directly- if you want to vent or itf you want some answers YOU NEED TO TALK TO THESE GUYS!! at http://www.qantas.com.au/needhelp/dyn/feedbackform?cat=ff

Not sure I like the sound of this: "you'll need fewer points for our most frequently redeemed Award flights" sounds okay but "in most other cases the number of points required for an Award flight will increase" doesn't!

Please post any further info if you know anything more

We're making some important changes to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program. These changes will give you greater choice and flexibility, whilst providing for the future growth of the program.

Here are the key features:

Effective 24 November 2004
share the benefits with the introduction of Family transfers
more flexibility and choice with Top-up points

Effective 25 May 2005
you'll need fewer points for our most frequently redeemed Award flights; in most other cases the number of points required for an Award flight will increase
choice of one-way or return Award flights, offering greater flexibility
service fee when making assisted Award bookings
simpler Award flight calculation process
changes to earning Status credits in line with the new 10-zone table
loyalty bonus points to replace Upgrade credits, for greater flexibility
new Flight Award upgrade processes, including removal of confirmed International Upgrade Awards
Flight Upgrade Awards will no longer be available on heavily discounted airfares

We'd like to thank you for being a Qantas Frequent Flyer and trust you will continue to enjoy the range of benefits offered by the program.

 

[theolecoot]

Ahem. i hate to suggest it... but dont you think the accc has already approved this process so that the membership can hear about it now?? dont you think that a multi billion dollar business would know the rules and regulations that govern a program like frequent flyers?

anyway they would have ahd the accountants, lawyers and 'experts' all over this at HQ.

I'm pretty hacked off at these changes. To me there is something more than it just being unfair, it should almost be illegal - you accumulate points that have a certain redemption value and the airline can devalue them as it sees fit - yet they have still had the benefit of your ticket purchases and customer loyalty. It's almost like a "bait and switch" operation.

Also, is there not an accounting problem with an airline revaluing points like this? Thinking back to the Ansett Frequent Flyer fiasco, wouldn't FF points be listed as a liability on Qantas' books? If you change the reward targets for points to make them more difficult to obtain, surely you are reducing your liability without any cash input. Wouldn't there be some provision in the tax or company laws against doing this? You're essentially doing an indirect transfer of funds from the consumer to the Qantas shareholder.

 

[alien]

some media exposure:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=23401

http://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/mornings/jfmediaondemand.htm

 

[Fleetz]

Adelaide to Cairns return how many points required??

Does anyone know how many FF point would be required under the new QANTAS scam......errr I meant scheme to fly Adelaide - Cairns return?

I am a Qantas club member and now chose to fly on other airlines because of their appalling service and attitude. Two years back Qantas managed to disconnect me from my baggage on 7 out of 8 international flights!!! I now carry a photo of what my bags look for when I go to lost baggage. When I approached them to inform them of their poor baggage performance all I got was "well that's air travel"!!!

I now use Singapore and Cathay on international flights where I can the service is noticeably better and friendly.

QAntas realkly need to have a close look at there competition.

Hope someone can help on the Adelaide Cairns calculation

Regards.

Fleetz

 

[timmal]

I read this yesterday in the SMH. It is yet another example of Qantas treating its customers like village idiots. The QFF program is arguably the worst I have the misfortune to be a member of. FF programs are supposed to reward members who are loyal and travel frequently. This latest stunt by Qantas further erodes any benefits for such people. If the ACCC had any guts they would throw this out immeditely. Some chance!
I recommend to everyone to join Virgin. I have been a member for 2 years and have yet to pay for an international Upper Class flight with them as I use Amex points.

Not sure I like the sound of this: "you'll need fewer points for our most frequently redeemed Award flights" sounds okay but "in most other cases the number of points required for an Award flight will increase" doesn't!

Please post any further info if you know anything more

We're making some important changes to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program. These changes will give you greater choice and flexibility, whilst providing for the future growth of the program.

Here are the key features:

Effective 24 November 2004
share the benefits with the introduction of Family transfers
more flexibility and choice with Top-up points

Effective 25 May 2005
you'll need fewer points for our most frequently redeemed Award flights; in most other cases the number of points required for an Award flight will increase
choice of one-way or return Award flights, offering greater flexibility
service fee when making assisted Award bookings
simpler Award flight calculation process
changes to earning Status credits in line with the new 10-zone table
loyalty bonus points to replace Upgrade credits, for greater flexibility
new Flight Award upgrade processes, including removal of confirmed International Upgrade Awards
Flight Upgrade Awards will no longer be available on heavily discounted airfares

We'd like to thank you for being a Qantas Frequent Flyer and trust you will continue to enjoy the range of benefits offered by the program.

 

[alien]

Its my understanding that QANTAS staff have no feedback lines to the upper eschelons of the company. If enough of us jump up and down screaming at the customer care department at: http://www.qantas.com.au/needhelp/d...backform?cat=ff maybe they will hear us

 

[G Avery]

Qantas Do it again!

Just like to say thanks Qantas for making it even harder for me to use my points and for charging points when I want to speak to someone for an award booking! (I only fly international with Qantas) with your new scheme it will make it even harder to use points and to get upgrades using points. Thank you for confirming my decision to join Cathay Pacific Marco Polo Club along with Qantas bad inflight service which seems to get worse and worse even on your first class flights its hardly service with a smile!! Qantas you need to see how "other" Airlines do it eg Cathay Pacific. My husband is also a Qantas FF and has spent US$100,000 or more this year on travel but most of it with other airlines because he's over Qantas's bad service and constant changes to the FF Program.

G. :twisted:

 

[marvel]

WOW

For me the timing is good as I was considering transferring 200,000 Amex points to either Qantas or Air NZ. Now it's a no brainer. At least with AirNZ you can pick the flight and pay with points.

I think the more people that avoid QF the better. I reckon you cash your points asap before the downgrade them again next year and then join someone else.

Vel.

 

[alien]

more media exposure http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/11/24/1101219620279.html

 

[ahawking]

Oxford dictionary definition: Loyal – faithful
Oxford dictionary definition: Monopoly – exclusive possession or control of the trade in a commodity or service

Over the last 10 years, I have been a loyal traveller of Qantas for which half of these years I have been a status member. However the changes to the frequent flyer program effective as of May 2005 shows what a great monopoly Qantas has in the Australian market.

I am extremely pissed off that my points that my wife and I have accrued during our business travel with Qantas has been devalued. A pathetic attempt has been made to off-set by reducing the number points required for short haul trips. To be frank, who cares about short haul!!

As we are now forced to use the online booking program (for which I not against), I have few concerns.

1. Before I make a booking using points, I generally check the availability of flights online. On more than one occasion when contacting Qantas to book it, the helpful person on the end of the phone advises that these seats aren’t really available. Does this mean that when you book online there is a possibility of turning up to check to be told that you don’t have a seat?

2. The reason why I use telephone is that my wife and I use our own points due to the number of points we accrue. When ever we travel we like to sit together….if we book our trip individually is the system going to be upgraded to cope with linking seats? Or do we have to spend 2,500 points to have our seats linked.

One final thing, requesting an international upgrade and being told ‘yes’ there is are seat available. Then on check in being told ‘no’ we have re-neg on your upgrade seat. To me that’s like saying, ‘yes’ we do value your business, but ‘no’ you are not important enough.

What’s the betting that next year the number of frequent flyer seats available for will be significantly reduced leading up to May 2005.

 

[Ulysses]

QFF Changes

Good old qantas.Despite being a Gold FF for almost a dozen years the last year has been a shocker 1. Getting bumped from my pre-booked seat LAX-SYD because 2 off duty cabin attendants wanted to sit together.All despite my protests to an irate, rude Chief Steward.
2. Being unable to use points to upgrade my wife to a spare business class seat next to LDN-SYD then being asked to move so friends of crew could be given a free upgrade
3. Now finding the bank of points I have accumulated thru inability to use them being devalued

I would encourage everyone to vent their feelings direct to Qantas by either email or phone. Sadly they will pay no attention to our comments on a worthwhile forum like this. This is a situation of their creation and real frequent flyers are being penalised

 

[Awarua]

QF Frequent Flyer changes

As an NZ based Gold Member I am very disappointed by the recently announced changes. So much for the value of loyalty 'mate'.

I fully intend to burn all my QF points and say 'adios' to QF.

Not too mention dumbed down service in business of late. Air NZ's new premier class in 05 looks great (proper beds, not claustrophobic cocoon-like things you keep sliding down in)

All my business will now be through NZ /SQ/ TG. And Virgin Blue when in Oz.

" You are the weakest link QANTAS. Goodbye!"

 

[alien]

Re: QFF Changes

1. Getting bumped from my pre-booked seat LAX-SYD because 2 off duty cabin attendants wanted to sit together.All despite my protests to an irate, rude Chief Steward.
2. Being unable to use points to upgrade my wife to a spare business class seat next to LDN-SYD then being asked to move so friends of crew could be given a free upgrade

I would of jumped up and down then complained in writing. Thats just not on!

 

[Jim]

Re: WOW

For me the timing is good as I was considering transferring 200,000 Amex points to either Qantas or Air NZ. Now it's a no brainer. At least with AirNZ you can pick the flight and pay with points.

I just transferred more then that into QFF and wish it was ANZ now. Then again Qantas are probably happy if I transferred them to ANZ
and likewise that you are. Does anyone know how much AMEX and other cards pay Qantas for airline points use???

 

[crown3]

Qantas Frequent Flyer

I find the recent changes to your FF programme an insult to loyal members like me. I have been Gold/Platinum for a number of years now, as well as a life member of the Qantas Club since 1988. You've repaid my loyalty and that of others like me, with an, unacceptable decrease in the value of my accumulated points. I travel to London 3-4 times a year; from now on my loyalty is to the carrier who offers me the best deal, not to Qantas who usually charges at least 50% more than its competitors without a corresponding increase in benefits and service. I was about to book my next London trip for 17 Jan with you; I’ve instructed my travel agent not to proceed and to use whoever offers me the best deal.

And as for my 50-60 domestic flights per year, where I've also been loyal to you, I think I'll switch to Virgin Blue, a move I’ve been avoiding for years.

Not that I think you people care, or will even bother to reply, other than with some PR cough prepared by a spin doctor.

Oh, I know, you need more profit! Don't expect it from me.
:x

 

[Leaving Qantas Now]

I had been accumulating points for my partner and I to visit Europe next year. Today's news prompted me to surf for alternate fully-paid business class deals to Europe. I tell you, flying Qantas is for idiots. There are some great deals via Asia or the Middle East at a fraction of the QF price, with much better FF schemes too.

Now I don't really care about my QF points, so I will try and use any airline except QF. I am even prepared to fly Virgin Blue domestically.

See you later (like, never again) Qantas.

 

[Will75]

This couldn't have come at an apt time, as I'm about to spend nearly $5,000 on a round-the-world ticket with QANTAS. I only got this website address today from the West Australian. All I can say is thank you to whoever operates this site!

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who has experienced sub-standard service with QANTAS. Reading the comments reminded me of my bad experience. It occurred on a previous round-the-world ticket. After travelling two days and being delayed in Singapore for 4 hours (being left on for one hour, taken off for an hour, told to re-board and then being "stuck" on board until departing), I returned to Perth with having part of my luggage lost. After patiently waiting half an hour for a QANTAS representative to show up, the said representative demanded I have what luggage that arrived re-weighed, as it looked "overweight". That put me off travelling with them for five years.

I thought that with this new trip I would join the frequent flyer program and re-join the QANTAS club. After the comments I've read on this website and the "water cooler" talk going on in the office, I think I will be reconsidering my travel plans.

Living in Western Australia, the new rules are quite a disadvantage. Fewer points for one way trips from Sydney to Melbourne is hardly beneficial for us here.

Thank you to those people who have commented on this issue (and allowing me to vent). Whilst the changes seem to benefit a minority, the majority of QANTAS ff customers appear to be disadvantaged.