Questions re Amex Platinum Charge Card

[wafliron]

Apologies that I went AWOL from my own thread for a few days everyone. Thanks to those who have provided extra information in the meantime.

Regarding the question from the OP about the CS staff - the wonder of the Plat Charge is that the staff are well trained and happy to have a real conversation with you rather thanjust vomiting up whatever is on their screen like companies such as Citibank do...

Not a good start trying to speak to someone about potentially getting a Plat Charge card :-( It sounded to me like the number you call for new card enquiries is answered by a third-party Australian-based business who try to phone-sell Amex cards on behalf of Amex. I spoke to two different operators, both of whom had coughpy product knowledge, gave me information I know is wrong, and were more interested in selling / reading sales scripts than actually listening to / answering my questions.

I assume the Plat Charge CS staff you're referring to are the ones you get to speak to once you already have the card, not a mob you can speak to beforehand?

2) Assuming yes to #1, are Amex "flexible" on this soft limit if they are pre-warned of large transactions? Asssuming I sign up for a charge card I'd be wanting to start putting multiple $50,000 transactions (ATO limit for one CC transaction) through it each quarter, starting immediately, and I'd imagine this may concern them from a new cardholder! But if I can't do this then there's no point signing up for the card.

In my experience yes. I had no history with them prior to signing up for this card and I wanted to put an ATO $40K tax bill through in my first week. I rang them and they told me that such a large transaction would not be approved for me but provided I paid $20K into the card they would approve the $40K. They also told me that if this all went through properly then my soft limit would be at least $40K in future. It all did and I was never asked to make a prepayment again. Over time I have worked my soft limit up to over $100K.

Thanks for the feedback... that's the sort of thing I wanted to hear

Once you made the initial prepayment / $40k charge, did you ever again make a big "step up" in charges from one month to the next without needing a prepayment? e.g. once you'd established $40k as your "soft limit" and put through multiple charges of this size, did you then go straight up to, say, $80k? Or incremental increases over time? I'm curious as to whether I'm going to need to make multiple prepayments - e.g. to go from new cardholder -> $40k, and then again from $40k to $80k, etc.

Also, did you ever ask about paying a big bill again and were specifically told a prepayment wasn't required? Or just put the bigger bills through and they never contacted you?

Don't take this card if you can't pay in full on time.

I'm not planning on doing this - was just curious. 5+ years since I haven't paid off a CC balance in full before the due date.

6)Do Amex (either technically, and/or in reality) disallow business transactions (i.e. paying business tax bills) on a "personal" charge card from from earning MR points? I had a look at the MR T&Cs and it didn't look like such a restriction exists, but TBH I was a bit surprised by this so I wanted to confirm.

I have paid about half a million dollars of tax bills on my plat charge and received full points. Plus when I made my first payment I specifically told them it was an ATO payment and they didn't care.

Thanks. I ended up specifically asking Amex about this too.

Interestingly, I had two operators in a row tell me that business tax payments were allowed but would only earn 0.5 MR points per $1 spent :-/ This came from the first two operators I spoke to though, who were both very average (as per my comment at the start of this post). I later on managed to get through to someone at Amex proper, who confirmed business tax bills were fine and earned normal MR points (after going away to check with a supervisor).


Thanks for the other info you provided too

 

[greenfrog86]

Not a good start trying to speak to someone about potentially getting a Plat Charge card :-( It sounded to me like the number you call for new card enquiries is answered by a third-party Australian-based business who try to phone-sell Amex cards on behalf of Amex. I spoke to two different operators, both of whom had coughpy product knowledge, gave me information I know is wrong, and were more interested in selling / reading sales scripts than actually listening to / answering my questions.

I assume the Plat Charge CS staff you're referring to are the ones you get to speak to once you already have the card, not a mob you can speak to beforehand?

Well I was actually referring to both types of customer contact. The team I spoke to prior to getting my card were very helpful - we had an honest discussion about my current card, my income (which was below the $100k minimum) etc and then she suggested that although she couldn't guarantee I'd be approved, it was worth submitting an application (ie I wasn't clearly auto-reject material).

In terms of CS experience once you have the card, this team would have to be the best I've dealt with. They're patient, will find information for you and take complaints/gripes seriously.

I queried a transaction where I'd received a tax refund when leaving Australia (tourist refund scheme) which when applied to my account actually decreased my points balance by the refund amount... Explanation was because they are setup like a merchant their refunds are not treated like payments etc...

He could tell I wasn't impressed by this so gave me 1000 points to resolve my issue. Score!!

 

[straitman]

I queried a transaction where I'd received a tax refund when leaving Australia (tourist refund scheme) which when applied to my account actually decreased my points balance by the refund amount... Explanation was because they are setup like a merchant their refunds are not treated like payments etc...

What am I missing here? That sounds normal to me.

 

[greenfrog86]

What am I missing here? That sounds normal to me.

The point is that if I spend $50 at woolworths I earn 75 MR points. If they reverse the transaction then I would expect those 75 points to be 'taken back'. Amex does this by not applying points to your next few purchases until the points balance goes to what it should be after the reversed transaction.

In this instance I participated in the tourist refund scheme which refunds the tax on goods you purchase and take overseas. One of their refund options is to apply a credit onto a credit card which I accepted and gave them my Amex card.

At no point did I make a purchase from the Australian government that was reversed like in the Woolworths example. I expected this to be a credit to my account and not be treated as a reversal which would subtract points from my account that I had earned under the terms and conditions of that account.

The Woolworths example I totally understand and expect that to be the case. The tax refund I'm not so keen on as it is essentially 'robbing' you of points that you have gained fairly.

Next time I think I'll get it onto a card like the 28 Degrees where it will just reduce the balance so that I'm not losing points just because of the way the government gives you the money back.

 

[oz_mark]

At no point did I make a purchase from the Australian government that was reversed like in the Woolworths example. I expected this to be a credit to my account and not be treated as a reversal which would subtract points from my account that I had earned under the terms and conditions of that account.

The Woolworths example I totally understand and expect that to be the case. The tax refund I'm not so keen on as it is essentially 'robbing' you of points that you have gained fairly.

You need to use the best card for the purpose, but you did receive points on the GST component of your purchase. Getting a refund of the GST is reducing the price of the items that you bought. If they had a system where the GST was removed at point of purchase you would never have got the points to begin with.

 

[wafliron]

Well I was actually referring to both types of customer contact. The team I spoke to prior to getting my card were very helpful - we had an honest discussion about my current card, my income (which was below the $100k minimum) etc and then she suggested that although she couldn't guarantee I'd be approved, it was worth submitting an application (ie I wasn't clearly auto-reject material).

Interesting, the pre-sales people I spoke to were definitely nowhere near that quality. I suspect Amex may have changed how it works since you applied... they only advertise a single sales phone number (which isn't dedicated to Plat), and when I called the Plat card services line I couldn't get anywhere without a card number. The better result I finally achieved was via calling a number from Whitepages (which I think was actually lost cards, although not labelled as such on Whitepages) and speaking to some of their staff overseas.

In terms of CS experience once you have the card, this team would have to be the best I've dealt with. They're patient, will find information for you and take complaints/gripes seriously.

That does sound like a nice change... hopefully I'll get a chance to enjoy it ;-)

 

[Stephen65]

Once you made the initial prepayment / $40k charge, did you ever again make a big "step up" in charges from one month to the next without needing a prepayment? e.g. once you'd established $40k as your "soft limit" and put through multiple charges of this size, did you then go straight up to, say, $80k? Or incremental increases over time? I'm curious as to whether I'm going to need to make multiple prepayments - e.g. to go from new cardholder -> $40k, and then again from $40k to $80k, etc.

I pushed the soft limit up slowly over time without large jumps. Whenever I was going to make a transaction that took me over what I thought was my soft limit I rang them in advance and got it cleared. I was never asked to make another prepayment.

 

[straitman]

You need to use the best card for the purpose, but you did receive points on the GST component of your purchase. Getting a refund of the GST is reducing the price of the items that you bought. If they had a system where the GST was removed at point of purchase you would never have got the points to begin with.

They were my thoughts also.

Points were gained from the GST part of the purchase and so it's reasonable that they are removed when it is refunded.

 

[wafliron]

I pushed the soft limit up slowly over time without large jumps. Whenever I was going to make a transaction that took me over what I thought was my soft limit I rang them in advance and got it cleared. I was never asked to make another prepayment.

That's what I wanted to hear, thanks I will be employing a similar strategy... I suspect I may have to make more than one pre-payment to get my soft limit to where I want it (quarterly tax bills are very big!), but hopefully it will just be the first time I make a big jump up and then OK for anything subsequent of the same or lesser size.

 

[RichardKopf]

Hmm... does anyone have any feedback on how long is takes Amex to become "comfortable" with a high spending pattern for a new cardholder? I don't mind having to keep the amounts relatively small / prepay some / whatever for the first month or three, but I don't want to be sitting here 6 months in and still having to battle Amex to put through $50k (or even many times this, which is the eventual goal).

We have a Cent and 2 Plat bus cards, plus a QF Ultimate and the free reserve cards that come with the Plats.

Our average monthly spend over the accounts is 350k per month. One Plat card has been running since '08. Early on, they called when it got to 50k, then it crept up and now is regularly over 175k without a call. The highest ever was 210k on that card. A newer Plat card (9 months) has crept from getting calls at 30k, to 50, and now they call at around 140k, to ask for a pay down. Never had a call on the Cent card but that rarely gets over 70k a month.

I have refused many attempts to do any assessment using our business or personal tax accounts as they would not benefit my comfort levels.

Amex has advised me that the highest, unassessed comfort level is 187k and that this is a combined limit across all cards, but as you see above, they don't stick to this. If you show a capacity and willingness to pay on time, or when asked, they just let you go on.

I have always been happy to give hem 20k or 50k to pay down any account they like. The newer Plat card had a balance of 135k, last month, but we have paid 202k off it before the due date, to keep it under 140k, total. I expect to reach the max level within a month, or two.

Sorry if that isn't helpful, but it's the story of our spend pattern.

 

[greenfrog86]

They were my thoughts also.

Points were gained from the GST part of the purchase and so it's reasonable that they are removed when it is refunded.

That's a very pedantic way of looking at it...

Has nobody noticed that this whole forum is about people doing things you would never have thought of to get points....? People here fly around the country just to get FF status... So why does it sound so crazy to point this out to others and avoid losing points in the future?

This would also apply to refunds from overseas purchases so from now on I'll be using a non point earning card for all tax refunds as its just dumb to lose points when you don't need to.

 

[wafliron]

I have refused many attempts to do any assessment using our business or personal tax accounts as they would not benefit my comfort levels.

In what context are the assessments asked for? Do they just ask seemingly randomly? Or, sometimes when they've rung for a prepayment have they offered to do an assessment instead?

And by "not benefit your comfort level", do you mean you don't think the assessments will actually help increase your soft limit (and/or in fact may lower it)?

I have always been happy to give hem 20k or 50k to pay down any account they like. The newer Plat card had a balance of 135k, last month, but we have paid 202k off it before the due date, to keep it under 140k, total. I expect to reach the max level within a month, or two.

Have you ever refused / negotiated your way out of a request for an early paydown? And have you ever noticed a pattern to how much they ask for when requesting a paydown - e.g. is it just enough to get the card under your "known" soft limit (e.g. $140k on your second Plat Bus card)? Or seems to be a certain percentage of current balance? Percentage of difference between current balance and previous-highest balance? Something else?

Sorry if that isn't helpful, but it's the story of our spend pattern.

No, thank-you, that was very helpful - the sort of max spend you're putting through per month is around where I'd like to end up (every third month instead of every month though), so it's great to hear an example of how you've achieved this.

Out of interest, what is the reason you're operating a number of charge cards rather than just putting everything through, e.g., the Cent card? Can't get the sort of max soft limit you need out of just the one card? Or something else?

 

[wafliron]

A couple of further questions I'm hoping those of you with the Plat Charge + complimentary Plat Reserve card can help me with:

Once you have the Plat Charge, is acceptance for the Plat Reserve card pretty much a given? Or does it require a full application process (complete with credit checks, etc) - so it's just like applying for the Plat Reserve card completely independently, it's just that they will waive the annual fee? And finally, if it's the latter, anyone know if Amex consider your payment history on the Plat Charge card as part of the acceptance / limit setting process?

Obviously I want to sign up for the free Plat Reserve card too (for the free flight, and extra $100k pa that earns bonus MR points), but I don't really want an extra hit on my credit file :-/ Likewise, if Amex treat it like a separate application I'm a little concerned about getting approved for it with a decent limit due to high limits on existing cards plus the additional "limit" of the charge card.

 

[straitman]

That's a very pedantic way of looking at it...

Why is it pedantic?

Theoretically, at least, you are meant to use the same CC for the refund as the purchase.

Some vendors insist upon that but many don't.

 

[oz_mark]

That's a very pedantic way of looking at it...

Has nobody noticed that this whole forum is about people doing things you would never have thought of to get points....? People here fly around the country just to get FF status... So why does it sound so crazy to point this out to others and avoid losing points in the future?

This would also apply to refunds from overseas purchases so from now on I'll be using a non point earning card for all tax refunds as its just dumb to lose points when you don't need to.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out that refunding to a normal bank account avoids the problem. The issue is that, in my belief, Amex were correct in reversing the points when the refund hit the account.

 

[RichardKopf]

In what context are the assessments asked for? Do they just ask seemingly randomly? Or, sometimes when they've rung for a prepayment have they offered to do an assessment instead?

And by "not benefit your comfort level", do you mean you don't think the assessments will actually help increase your soft limit (and/or in fact may lower it)?



Have you ever refused / negotiated your way out of a request for an early paydown? And have you ever noticed a pattern to how much they ask for when requesting a paydown - e.g. is it just enough to get the card under your "known" soft limit (e.g. $140k on your second Plat Bus card)? Or seems to be a certain percentage of current balance? Percentage of difference between current balance and previous-highest balance? Something else?



No, thank-you, that was very helpful - the sort of max spend you're putting through per month is around where I'd like to end up (every third month instead of every month though), so it's great to hear an example of how you've achieved this.

Out of interest, what is the reason you're operating a number of charge cards rather than just putting everything through, e.g., the Cent card? Can't get the sort of max soft limit you need out of just the one card? Or something else?

They used to ask if I would like to have an assessment so that they could set a comfort level, which they thought would be higher. It happened at times when I had reached or exceeded the current comfort level. Agreeing to an assessment has no immediate effect. It is not instead.

They never ask me to pay down the account. They just indicate that further charges would not be allowed until the account was paid down.

I always refused the assessment as my income would do nothing to let Amex believe that I could pay 3-4 million per year. Rather, let my payment record speak for itself.

I have never refused or tried to negotiate a paydown. It's to my advantage to keep the account exactly as Amex likes it, and the actions taken have allowed our spend to move from 50k to 350k per month. Amex calls us if one of the cards exceeds its comfort level (last month's balance plus this month's spend).

We operate numerous cards mainly to maximise points. Qantas Ultimate is used for Qantas purchases at 2.5 points per dollar. Plat Bus charge cards earn bonus points up to 250k spend. Cent earns bonus points up to 500k spend. The more bonus points we get the more we enjoy our benefits. In addition, by using 350k of Amex's money every month, I get to keep that amount in my bank account, which earns 5.5% interest p.a. This interest far exceeds the cost of the cards, earning us an income. Once the Cent Bus card is released, I may also take one of those, to maximise income and points.

I realise that our situation isn't normal, but think that anyone with business card spend can benefit in similar ways.

 

[greenfrog86]

Why is it pedantic?

Theoretically, at least, you are meant to use the same CC for the refund as the purchase.

Some vendors insist upon that but many don't.

I'm not sure you understand how tourist refunds work...

Ie I made a purchase for $880 at Louis Vuitton. The Australian Government gave me the tax back on this amount. Two completely separate transactions and the Government is not a merchant here...

Either way I've learned my lesson and any one else getting refunds when they travel overseas have also been warned.

Put it on your 28 Degrees card guys...

 

[mini2]

Re TRS, get the GST refund done and get them to deposit that straight into your bank account. Doesn't touch the card one bit and won't/can't affect your MR points.

 

[greenfrog86]

Re TRS, get the GST refund done and get them to deposit that straight into your bank account. Doesn't touch the card one bit and won't/can't affect your MR points.

I've taken my lesson out of this one and won't be doing it again... However I got all my European tax refunds put onto my 28 Degrees card which was great as the few hundred dollars helped pay for all my shopping while I was away!

 

[skywalkerLAX]

A couple of further questions I'm hoping those of you with the Plat Charge + complimentary Plat Reserve card can help me with:

Once you have the Plat Charge, is acceptance for the Plat Reserve card pretty much a given? Or does it require a full application process (complete with credit checks, etc) - so it's just like applying for the Plat Reserve card completely independently, it's just that they will waive the annual fee? And finally, if it's the latter, anyone know if Amex consider your payment history on the Plat Charge card as part of the acceptance / limit setting process?

Obviously I want to sign up for the free Plat Reserve card too (for the free flight, and extra $100k pa that earns bonus MR points), but I don't really want an extra hit on my credit file :-/ Likewise, if Amex treat it like a separate application I'm a little concerned about getting approved for it with a decent limit due to high limits on existing cards plus the additional "limit" of the charge card.

No it is not.

I was approved for the Plat Charge Card and declined for any supplemental Credit Card. One of the reasons that made me drop the card this week (3 months after I got it).