Recent disappointing SYD-SIN J catering experience

[JKH]

Cabin crew as part of their Award/EBA conditions are to be provided with inflight meals to J standard. These are separate to pax meals, may look/are often the same (although usually marked as crew meals when loaded) but are never to be made available to pax in the event that pax catering isn’t correct and certainly if pax have been moved to different flight services whereby catering is not guaranteed.

 

[stm1sydney]

This was my first time on QF international J in many years because I usually go QR, EK, EY, TK, or SQ. I was interested to see how they stack up.

Normal service can be resumed! ABQ.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Re: RichardMel) *A, flying J, on any member airline, allowed to use any *A lounges, ta for that one.

 

[RichardMEL]

Re: RichardMel) *A, flying J, on any member airline, allowed to use any *A lounges, ta for that one.

Not exactly.

In general yes, but it does not always follow. Just as QR restricts access to its lounges to class of service, and there was the case of CX in SFO restricting access to selected QFF elites for some time until it got sorted out.. there are some exceptions. eg not all Star Alliance carrier lounges are eligible to Star Alliance passengers or only in certain circumstances. Common examples are SQ in SIN pushes *G members flying Y/Y+ into an inferior lounge while *A F passengers are pushed into the SQ F lounge - only SQ F/Suites pax get access to TPR (which is not technically a Star Alliance lounge). Likewise as I noted earlier the United Polaris lounges are denied to *G pax even when flying UA, unless they are flying UA long haul J, or another Star Alliance carrier in J - basically the UA Polaris Lounges are not available to elites but only on class of service (again like SQ F and J lounges in SIN).. Also LH F Terminal is ONLY available to LH F passengers (and LH top tier HON members, which is sort of like P1 I guess).. a F pax on SQ for example will have to use far inferior LH Senator/Business lounges (I always get the two confused as to what is "better" I think the Business Lounge).

However, in general, pax flying premium cabins on Star carriers can access other alliance members lounges, but this is not universal.

Just as with oneworld not all airline operated lounges of member carriers are available to alliance partners.

The question I have is how much does data come into play into managing what is loaded of the different options? I imagine QF (and indeed any airline) should be able gather good data around what dishes are selected on any given route in any given season, and cater accordingly. Granted on specific flights you could encounter problems, on balance throughout a year it should not be a systematic problem, especially if they overcater by 1 or 2 meals on each dish (or do they just cater the exact number of dishes and not over cater at all?)

Some years back did a tour of QF Catering in BNE which was very interesting. There are a few docos on airline ops out there too that cover catering and it's very much a mix of historic pax demand data and logistics They'll look at things like general pax mix and preferences on certain routes, as well as cultural requirements (eg no pork to/from DXB).. route specific demand patterns would be things like more asian sty;e food options to/from Asian ports and the like.

The reality is though it's all a bit of guesswork. There's no way to predict what any particular pax will desire on any particular flight and unlike far smaller cabins like F it's not possible to massively over cater (and as mentioned above QF don't do a lot of that unlike some other carriers like SQ or EK who will take the hit for pax satisfaction). Looking an an A380 for example you need to cater to over 400 pax (let's keep crew separate) and have some mix of options but you just do npt have the room or realistic ability to carry enough of every meal option on each sector - there would be so much wastage and cost in food bill, fuel etc that it's just not going to be an option.

And food needs to be prepared hours before a flight and be frozen up and sent to the aircraft a specific time before departure, say 45 minutes or so.. so late changes, upgrades, etc can put a spanner in the works (hence the infamous "Catering Not Assured" messages).

One thing I would say to those that want far more chance of a hopefully acceptable meal or at least a guarantee of one(as much as can be) is to go for a special meal because those are catered separately. Now again if late changes are made this can obviously mess that up, but they definitely track the special meals and work to manage them as best they can.

I recall in BNE on the tour one of our group had a special meal request in for their flight which was some hours away. When we were there they actually located that meal sitting in the cart ready to go. That was pretty cool (literally too ) and we saw the displays of flight status, meal requests, pax numbers as that current time representing the mix required.

It is a very big logical operation not only to try and eensure the quality of meals and numbers, but obviously the safety of the meals and the time sensitive process of meal prep - cooking and making sure they are packed away quickly to avoid any contamination or risk, things like salads being made in specific conditions and all sorted in the required time.

And yes, obviously, things happen. Sometimes the meals go astray, the mix is not right because say an extra 20 pax go for the fish instead of the pasta, or someone makes a human error with handing out a special meal (that seems really odd to me but well.. human error). and when irrops strike, people chop and change flights, miss connections etc, the whole system can get thrown out of the window. For example I remember being on a flight delayed by a bunch of hours.. they hit some limit where all the catering that had been loaded was deemed out of date and had to be chucked. IIRC this was an EK flight.. they sourced new catering but obviously no menus matched and it was all a bit hit and miss (I was in F IIRC).. the food was still great but it was obviously not what was expected but.. these things happen. That made it actually kind of exciting tbh

I think as airlines contemplate ever longer sectors, like 20 ours that food becomes so much more critical. I mean if you can't get something acceptable to eat on a 3 hour flight you'll survive.. but 12, 15 or 20 hours? That's a whole other thing.. specially for folks with dietry requirements, allergies etc and poses another part of the challenge for carriers like QF to consider.

 

[p--and--t]

I appreciate the issue which is essentially commercial in nature. Therefore I would vote with your feet. Qantas catering has lost its shine for sometime now with me and when or if that becomes a substantial issue I will switch to BA/CX or even back to SQ, all who have refocused on their inflight offerings. Hint - Do&Co and Lobster thermidor......

When did they switch to Do&Co?

Flew NBO-LHR in J on BA in 2018 and they served me a sandwich for the main meal and the FAs were appallingly lazy.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: RichardMel) *A, flying J, on any member airline, allowed to use any *A lounges, ta for that one.

Not exactly.

in terms of *A business class - the rule actually holds true. I can't think of an example where business class pax on *A cannot get access to any other *A business class lounge (US domestic lounges are the exception, but this is pretty universal across all the alliances).

The exceptions you mention apply, in general, to *A Gold status, and First class - which are all over the shop.

 

[levelnine]

I'm baffled that Qantas don't do more to encourage passengers to select their meals beforehand.

They used to have 'online only' meals when you pre-ordered online. That at least encouraged passengers to look at the options online and perhaps select one, which reduces waste and the need to load as many options. Now all you get are the same options that are available on board. Hardly an encouragement to book ahead.

Another example of where SQ shines and QF falls completely flat.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I'm baffled that Qantas don't do more to encourage passengers to select their meals beforehand.

They used to have 'online only' meals when you pre-ordered online. That at least encouraged passengers to look at the options online and perhaps select one, which reduces waste and the need to load as many options. Now all you get are the same options that are available on board. Hardly an encouragement to book ahead.

Another example of where SQ shines and QF falls completely flat.

Couldn’t agree more. Book the Cook is the programme you refer to has some exquisite delights so it needs to be incentivised to some degree. Book ahead Neils’ green salad and sourdough ?

a big hit for me is CX garlic bread, simple but well done. Variety is a good start.

 

[RichardMEL]

in terms of *A business class - the rule actually holds true. I can't think of an example where business class pax on *A cannot get access to any other *A business class lounge (US domestic lounges are the exception, but this is pretty universal across all the alliances).

The exceptions you mention apply, in general, to *A Gold status, and First class - which are all over the shop.

True. And this is wildly off topic to this thread I was just trying to point out that yes, class of service trumps most access policies, there are exceptions - and as you mention flying J ("First") on domestic US flights will not get lounge access purely on the class of service alone - that's a case where, in the case of Star Alliance, non UA *G do get access (akin to QF Gold/Plat can access AA clubs even on domestic only itins while AA elites can not unless same day international flight).

And sure, I mentioned the myriad *G exceptions because many on this forum are elite FF members so it can affect those

 

[Fergo747]

I'm baffled that Qantas don't do more to encourage passengers to select their meals beforehand.

Yes but even when you select your meal online it doesn't always work. I always select my meal to avoid the disappointment of missing out on my first choice but on more than one occasion the crew member has still asked me what I would like and when I mention that I've pre-ordered they say they've go no record of it

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes but even when you select your meal online it doesn't always work. I always select my meal to avoid the disappointment of missing out on my first choice but on more than one occasion the crew member has still asked me what I would like and when I mention that I've pre-ordered they say they've go no record of it

And maybe this is why QF have not pushed it as much. I reckon it's been a bit of a fail for them. Always bemused me that only offered for J and not F (even when most of the meals are the same). I wonder if the logistics are a problem for them somehow (though as noted in earlier post from visiting BNE and how they deal with special meals I do not see how they couldn't tbh).

Honestly if QF were smart they'd follow AA's lead (and UA are also implementing this year) of pre-order domestic J meals. I reckon they could reduce (some) wastage and potentially offer a better meal offering.

It might even improve service on short sectors like CBR-MEL/SYD, MEL-ADL etc because if say 2 or 3 of your pax have ordered meals, then you don't have to worry about asking and stuff, give them their meal and offer drinks.. save a few minutes on these really short service sectors.

Internationally it's surprised me that not more airlines offer a pre-order type service - TG do, SQ as discussed.. and QF.. sort of. MH also have it, but it seems a bit hit and miss to me when I tried it. Who else? Not many others that I know of.

 

[jb747]

Barramundi, salmon and perch often appear in the crew meals. Sometimes they're quite decent, sometimes not. They are a separate load to the passenger meals. So, just because you see someone eating a meal similar to what you wanted, it does not mean that the cabin crew stole it from you.

If you feel that QF under cater, then that's a reason to complain, or move your business elsewhere. Or both. It is not a reason to throw mud at the crew.

 

[bernardblack]

And maybe this is why QF have not pushed it as much. I reckon it's been a bit of a fail for them. Always bemused me that only offered for J and not F (even when most of the meals are the same). I wonder if the logistics are a problem for them somehow (though as noted in earlier post from visiting BNE and how they deal with special meals I do not see how they couldn't tbh).

Honestly if QF were smart they'd follow AA's lead (and UA are also implementing this year) of pre-order domestic J meals. I reckon they could reduce (some) wastage and potentially offer a better meal offering.

It might even improve service on short sectors like CBR-MEL/SYD, MEL-ADL etc because if say 2 or 3 of your pax have ordered meals, then you don't have to worry about asking and stuff, give them their meal and offer drinks.. save a few minutes on these really short service sectors.

Internationally it's surprised me that not more airlines offer a pre-order type service - TG do, SQ as discussed.. and QF.. sort of. MH also have it, but it seems a bit hit and miss to me when I tried it. Who else? Not many others that I know of.

I know it's cool to badmouth them, but when I flew the AA SYD-LAX vv flights a couple of years back, with economy seats I had upgraded to business using AAdvantage systemwide upgrades, I could preorder from several options on long-haul (and even the 77W LAX-MIA transcon if I recall), and the things I preordered were quite nice.
I missed having espresso as an option, though.

 

[dajop]

Looking an an A380 for example you need to cater to over 400 pax (let's keep crew separate) and have some mix of options but you just do npt have the room or realistic ability to carry enough of every meal option on each sector -

I don't the 400 pax is that relevant, to this specific thread - which is about J. I don' think anyone is expecting the airline to provide a high chance of meal choice in economy! But perhaps moreso in business. Also, anecdotally these meal choice shortages seem to more the smaller cabin flights - A330's internationally. I assume that QF's margins can't cope with the extra $20-30 of carrying 3-4 extra J meals per flight and that their hold on their customers is sufficient that not having meal choices available doesn't affect their ability to fill the J cabin.

 

[RichardMEL]

Sure, but what if those 3-4 extra meals of the Barra, for example, are already selected, and they are left with 10 pastas (or whatever)?

where do you draw the line? it's always going to be difficult

IMO

 

[dajop]

Granted, always going to be difficult, but seems to be more reports of this on QF than other carriers (in this part of the world anyway), so it suggests something must be going awry. Personally, it's been a long time since I've missed out on my meal choice any any carrier, so I'm thinking it must be a blip - but I wouldn't choose the barra to begin with

Another way I'm convinced I've seen SQ deal with this is via portion sizes. (for example rather than a slab of meat for each meal, the meal consists of three smaller slabs of meat and if you are short a meal you plate of three meals from the two foils, I think people are often concerned more about the meal choice than the size of the meal. But that could work on SQ, where the ply you with an entree, a dessert and fruit and cheese and which fills you up anyway. On certain carriers who carry on with this small plate and large plate nonsense, and it'ss "dessert, fruit or cheese" not "dessert, fruit and cheese" the quantity could be an issue too).

 

[GoldCanyon340]

On certain carriers who carry on with this small plate and large plate nonsense, and it'ss "dessert, fruit or cheese" not "dessert, fruit and cheese"

Been a while since I've had dessert on a flight in any class (I get enough calories in the lounge ) but this "dessert or cheese" situation is an aspect of QF J I really do not like.Terrible 'optics' as antyone in marketing would say (not Scotty - he's got other things to worry about but you know what I mean).

 

[Anna]

I don't know why QF always have to start service from the front. Why can't they mix it up a bit?

I've been on QF longhaul flights where they have done different J meal sectors in different directions. It just means they already know in advance that they don't have enough food onboard for everyone to be offered a choice so they're trying to make sure that it's not the same people each time who end up with no choice. Not good enough in J, especially at QF J prices.

 

[goldenhorn]

As it turns out, we are flying QF in J again this Sunday SIN-MEL-SYD so am keen to see if I can prebook our meals.

Is it possible to choose meals through the app? If so, I can’t locate where you do this.

Or does it need to be done through the Qantas website on desktop?

 

[Sprucegoose]

As it turns out, we are flying QF in J again this Sunday SIN-MEL-SYD so am keen to see if I can prebook our meals.

Is it possible to choose meals through the app? If so, I can’t locate where you do this.

Or does it need to be done through the Qantas website on desktop?

I didn't think that was possible out of Australia, but it's been awhile since I've tried and haven't always kept up with the genuine QF service enhancements.