Red-e-deal increase

[oz_mark]

Effective for sale and travel on/after Friday 23 November 2007, Qantas will increase base fares for Red-e-Deal and Super Saver fare families by 2.4% on the following markets.
MELPER vv
SYDPER vv
BNECNS vv
MELCNS vv
BNETSV vv
DRWPER vv
BNEDRW vv
ADLDRW vv
CBRPER vv

 

[serfty]

I note they are all basically longhaul routes ...

... qantas are not trying to avoid Fuel Fine increases are they? Nah .. couldn't be

 

[NM]

I note they are all basically longhaul routes ...

... qantas are not trying to avoid Fuel Fine increases are they? Nah .. couldn't be

I just wish they would roll the fuel fines into base fares completely across the board. If they were to increase all fares by the current fuel fine rate and remove all fuel fines I would be one of the first to congratulate them. And even if they want to roll in another 2.5% increase then I would still be happy.

 

[littl_flier]

I note they are all basically longhaul routes ...

... qantas are not trying to avoid Fuel Fine increases are they? Nah .. couldn't be

No doubt with the oil price going the way it is, QF will be able to justify an increase to the fuel fines soon too.

DJ will be even worse soon if they haven't started hedging more recently.

 

[Travel Guru]

I just wish they would roll the fuel fines into base fares completely across the board. If they were to increase all fares by the current fuel fine rate and remove all fuel fines I would be one of the first to congratulate them. And even if they want to roll in another 2.5% increase then I would still be happy.

I think we all wish every airline would do the same.

Unfortunately I don't see Qantas doing it anytime soon, as it would invariably damage loadings as the public then perceive their fares to be more expensive than they actually are.

I think its going to take action by IATA or a governing body to get airlines to do so (with the exception of Emirates and the like who already are voluntarily)

TG

 

[moa999]

It would also -cough- hurt the profitability on FF award fares -cough-
so I don't see it changing any time soon.

Maybe as part of AnyFare they also let you pay the fuel fine via points

 

[NM]

I think we all wish every airline would do the same.

Unfortunately I don't see Qantas doing it anytime soon, as it would invariably damage loadings as the public then perceive their fares to be more expensive than they actually are.

I think its going to take action by IATA or a governing body to get airlines to do so (with the exception of Emirates and the like who already are voluntarily)

TG

Yeah, I know its not going to happen any time soon. I just like to rant about it . It would be great of IATA or someone would set some rules about it. Do you think that will ever happen?

 

[drron]

No doubt with the oil price going the way it is, QF will be able to justify an increase to the fuel fines soon too.

DJ will be even worse soon if they haven't started hedging more recently.

The old pea and thimble trick.18 months ago the oil price reached $US75 a barrel,the Aussie was at 72 cents so an oil price of $A104.At present with oil around $US95 and the Aussie around 90 cents the oil price is $A105.50.
Qantas and the oil companies are having a ball at our expense.

 

[Standby]

The price of west texas crude has little to do with AV gas prices (which is higher per barrel )and refining margins and many more airlines after that AV gas as they ramp up cap..more LCCs take to the sky the higher that margin will become....
Because Dom fuel fines on QF are standard irrespective of distance it makes sence that the longerhaul routes will be hit with price increases first.Many Int Carriers have already wacked up their fuel surcharges..in fact I swa a travel blog quoting UA have made 8 fare increases since the beginning of Sep at 5 and $10 a throw. Petrol at the bowser about to push towards 1.50 per litre
and the Aussie dollar looks like its run out of puff as well will have issues.
we should actually worry if OPEC or the Arab states move Fuel pricing to euros...where we wouldbe in real trouble as the AUD has stayed steady

 

[drron]

The price of west texas crude has little to do with AV gas prices (which is higher per barrel )and refining margins and many more airlines after that AV gas as they ramp up cap..more LCCs take to the sky the higher that margin will become....
Because Dom fuel fines on QF are standard irrespective of distance it makes sence that the longerhaul routes will be hit with price increases first.Many Int Carriers have already wacked up their fuel surcharges..in fact I swa a travel blog quoting UA have made 8 fare increases since the beginning of Sep at 5 and $10 a throw. Petrol at the bowser about to push towards 1.50 per litre
and the Aussie dollar looks like its run out of puff as well will have issues.
we should actually worry if OPEC or the Arab states move Fuel pricing to euros...where we wouldbe in real trouble as the AUD has stayed steady

The price of west texas crude,avgas or gold have really not risen much if quoted in euros,$A,GB pound or even the yen.The apparent rapid rise in prices is due to the rapid collapse of the $US.Warren Buffett is still short on the $US,Bette Midler has asked to be paid in gold,the sub prime mess is not over,the US has a problem with debt because of too easy credit which they have "fixed"by lowering interest rates.Also if OPEC start pricing in anything else but $US(and they are discussing a basket of currencies not the euro) and the $US is no longer the worlds reserve currency I dont see the $US appreciating against the $A.

 

[NM]

The old pea and thimble trick.18 months ago the oil price reached $US75 a barrel,the Aussie was at 72 cents so an oil price of $A104.At present with oil around $US95 and the Aussie around 90 cents the oil price is $A105.50.
Qantas and the oil companies are having a ball at our expense.

I am not sure your numbers are completely accurate. My records don't go back quite 18 months, but looking back at my records I have the oil price at US$58.36 on 31st October 2006 and the A$ was trading at US$0.7687 that day, making oil about A$75.92 at that time.

Today the oil price jumped to US$99.08, which is A$111.88 at today's rate of US$0.8856.

Attached is a graph showing the oil price in US$ as published at Oil-Price.net, the A$ exchange rate as published at XE.com and the calculated A$ oil price over the last 13 months.

 

[drron]

I am not sure your numbers are completely accurate. My records don't go back quite 18 months, but looking back at my records I have the oil price at US$58.36 on 31st October 2006 and the A$ was trading at US$0.7687 that day, making oil about A$75.92 at that time.

Today the oil price jumped to US$99.08, which is A$111.88 at today's rate of US$0.8856.

Attached is a graph showing the oil price in US$ as published at Oil-Price.net, the A$ exchange rate as published at XE.com and the calculated A$ oil price over the last 13 months.

Yes I am not being precise-it was near the beginning of 2006(the northern winter).But again a lot of the increase we are seeing now is in fact the weakness of the $US.As always it does depend on the days you pick for comparison.

 

[JohnK]

So they have avoided a fuel surcharge increase and increased base airfares for some long haul domestic routes.

The old pea and thimble trick.18 months ago the oil price reached $US75 a barrel,the Aussie was at 72 cents so an oil price of $A104.At present with oil around $US95 and the Aussie around 90 cents the oil price is $A105.50.
Qantas and the oil companies are having a ball at our expense.

I posted this article from Crikey earlier this yeat and I thought it was interesting. It is a little out of date now that the crude oil prices have gone up again but I still think it is relevant.

The average price of crude oil in November 2000 was around A$60/barrel. According to some of the figures in this thread the latest average crude oil price is around A$115/barrel.

What was the price of crude oil in 2004, in A$, when the fuel surcharges were first introduced and how much has crude oil gone up in that time, in A$, compared to fuel surcharges? Anyone care to do a calculation? The answer tells the real story.

Fuel is a cost of running the business and should be included in the base price.

I don't care if airfares increase just include the cost of fuel in the base airfare.

 

[NM]

I don't have the data to plot the oil price earlier than my graph above. But I do have A$ going back further. This is the A$-US$ exchange rate for the last 5 years.

 

[dajop]

I don't care if airfares increase just include the cost of fuel in the base airfare.

Aaah but then FF/mileage programs would be far less profitable. I think it it is big time devious that on occassions you can buy entire fares on JQ for less than the taxes/fuel fines charged for an award booking on JQ (just because they slap a QF code onto it).

 

[littl_flier]

The old pea and thimble trick.18 months ago the oil price reached $US75 a barrel,the Aussie was at 72 cents so an oil price of $A104.At present with oil around $US95 and the Aussie around 90 cents the oil price is $A105.50.
Qantas and the oil companies are having a ball at our expense.

But that's the thing, (even using NM's statistics) once the fuel price at the petrol bowser soars, the average joe wouldn't think twice about QF raising the fuel fines which will make it seem reasonable to the general (and those not smart enough to realise) consumer.

QF have a very good hedging deal in place to cover their fuel requirements and with the strength of the Aussie dollar, there fuel costs should remain reasonably constant. Maybe they will be good people and keep things constant, but a good economist at QF will realise that the market will tolerate an increase based on consumer thoughts and the elasticity of QF's main market, corporate.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Didn't BA just rise Fuel Fines as well?

 

[Travel Guru]

Aaah but then FF/mileage programs would be far less profitable. I think it it is big time devious that on occassions you can buy entire fares on JQ for less than the taxes/fuel fines charged for an award booking on JQ (just because they slap a QF code onto it).

It also saves them alot of money in commissions to agents which would need to be paid on the fuel fines were they to be incorporated into the fare.

Personally, I think its unbelievable the ACCC will allow the airlines to keep including it as a tax when its clearly a business expense.
Perhaps when my guys sell tickets from now on i'll add on a TQ - Technology Tax or ST - Stationary tax???

To answer your question NM, I highly doubt IATA will do anything soon, I don't think anyone in IATA has the balls to broach what would surely be an unpopular idea....and just as im sure many politicians would like to scrap alot of the welfare system in favour of a more proactive solution, unfortunately they rely on the welfare vote to keep their jobs so the best interests of the country go out the window in favour of longevity.

TG

 

[serfty]

I have heard the AirNZ "Grab-a-seat" sales used to have e-tickets giving the fare at a -ve value so the +++ would bring to the advertised cost.

 

[NM]

And one that I find really hard to swallow is where QF collects the fuel fines for flights they don't even operate. But a xONEx fare and QF collects fuel fines for all sectors except those in and between USA and Canada. and they don't remit the fuel fines they collect for the BA, CX, AA, LA, JL, IB, AY etc sectors to those airlines.

How can they possibly justify collecting a fuel fine for a flight which they incur no fuel costs?

 

[futaris]

Norfolk Air SYD-MEL fare is -$61.74 plus taxes of $62.74 to give a fare of $1.