Report: Qantas Crew Sleeps across Economy Seats in full view of passengers.

[Must...Fly!]

I'm sorry but this setup has to be illegal, especially for flights to the US which come under the jurisdiction of the FAA. In particular, I draw you, the reader's attention to FAA Flightcrew Member Rest facilities. Per this very handbook the setup does not even qualify as a category 3 rest area and I suspect you need an even higher category rest area for such long flights.

-RooFlyer88

I'm guessing by the title this is for flight crew (i.e. pilots) not cabin crew or flight attendants.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm guessing by the title this is for flight crew (i.e. pilots) not cabin crew or flight attendants.

There are some interesting snippets however that would likely be applicable to any cabin crew rest as well… for example ‘fasten seatbelt signs’ should be visible in the sleeping area (even if dimmed to allow sleeping). Blankets over the top of seats would almost certainly obstruct the view of lighted signs in the cabin.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

As an aside, and perhaps I'm missing something here but for long haul international flights I cannot figure out how to book Qantas. By that I mean, yeah the flights are there but they are out of reach when it comes to pricing. I'm consistently seeing it close to $2000 AUD return for flights to North America in economy. Why on earth would I spend that kind of change when I can fly business on Air Canada for about the same cost? Doesn't make much sense if you ask me! But now that I'm seeing QF cutting corners on aircrew who are really the only customer facing position on that flight and you really have to wonder how greedy Uncle Alan wants to get!

-RooFlyer88

 

[SCM]

I once flew a mostly empty Qantas flight to Japan in economy, and slept across an empty middle row of seats - best sleep I've ever had in a plane full stop, more luxurious than business class.

However my concern would be privacy and noise. What if there is someone's child or baby crying next to them? How are they going to get proper sleep in order to do their job well?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I once flew a mostly empty Qantas flight to Japan in economy, and slept across an empty middle row of seats - best sleep I've ever had in a plane full stop, more luxurious than business class.

However my concern would be privacy and noise. What if there is someone's child or baby crying next to them? How are they going to get proper sleep in order to do their job well?

For the first part, yes the row of 4 seats is certainly better than your typical economy extra leg room seat having had that luxury flying MH back in late 2014 from CGK to FRA. However, I would challenge your notion that it is in any way better than business class even just focusing on the seating. Now, maybe I'm a novice traveller here but having flown a number of airlines in J long haul, namely Lufthansa, United and Air New Zealand, each of them were leagues ahead of any economy seat you'd find, even having all 4 seats. The 747-400 I flew on with Lufthansa's was on the upper-deck, away from the riff-raff of Economy and First class travellers and their crying babies. Most importantly, the seat I was on had a massaging functionality which when you're on a longish flight like FRA > YYZ can make a real difference. For Air New Zealand, flying YVR to AKL, the seat is comfy as it is, but that mattress topper and duvet they put on top makes you feel like you are on cloud. Really comfy ride despite the TPAC turbulence. United used to be my least favourite long haul J product but recently with what they've done on the 787s with Polaris has made me change my mind. Comfy seats and no neighbours!

To your second point about privacy and noise, I suppose it really depends on what the regulations say. For instance, United's Island Hopper service on a 737 is around 16 hours, certainly longer than this pedestrian TPAC journey. And despite that, cabin crew get a seat that reclines 40 degrees without any curtain. It barely meets the definition of a class 3 and likely was allowed given the logistical challenges of operating wide body birds for such a route.

-RooFlyer88

 

[hutch]

As an aside, and perhaps I'm missing something here but for long haul international flights I cannot figure out how to book Qantas. By that I mean, yeah the flights are there but they are out of reach when it comes to pricing. I'm consistently seeing it close to $2000 AUD return for flights to North America in economy. Why on earth would I spend that kind of change when I can fly business on Air Canada for about the same cost? Doesn't make much sense if you ask me! But now that I'm seeing QF cutting corners on aircrew who are really the only customer facing position on that flight and you really have to wonder how greedy Uncle Alan wants to get!

-RooFlyer88

I would assume a business charges as much as the market is willing to pay.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I would assume a business charges as much as the market is willing to pay.

Either that or some airlines have better sweet spots for saver business class availability than others and may or may not offer points on sale at a 100% bonus. When you can fly Air Canada from Sydney to Toronto for 160,000 miles return in business class (plus a small amount of taxes and fees) why would anyone bother with cash fares again?

Another example I absolutely love is United. 35,000 miles + $600 co-pay to upgrade your Australia to Europe United itinerary from the cheapest economy fare to Polaris business class? Yes please!

-RooFlyer88

 

[dajop]

How are they going to get proper sleep in order to do their job well?

Probably just as well the flights in both directions are “day” flights from a point of origin perspective, and maybe this is a factor why QF management think this is OK for cabin crew. (???).

Outbound flight leaves at 10am and arrive at 11:30pm Brisbane time. A long day but no full night.

But the already jet lagged crew on the return would be in a lot worse situation with a 10:20 departure and 01:30 arrival LA time

 

[MEL_Traveller]

However, I would challenge your notion that it is in any way better than business class even just focusing on the seating.

-RooFlyer88

Depends on when the OP was flying! Qf only recently completed the refurb of their a330 fleet to full flat beds in business. Prior to that the only way you could get full flat on those aircraft was four seats in economy… business were angled flat

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Depends on when the OP was flying! Qf only recently completed the refurb of their a330 fleet to full flat beds in business. Prior to that the only way you could get full flat on those aircraft was four seats in economy… business were angled flat

Angled flats are still a think? I thought they did away with that along with smoking on the plane and using paper upgrade coupons to secure your clipper class seat!

I should also point out that when booking, that J seats aren't created equal, even on the same airline. For instance, in July I'm flying KLM J from YYZ to AMS. There are two flights on offer for this routing (at least at the time I booked) one on a 777 and the other on an 787. On paper they seem about the same, with the 787 perhaps being the better aircraft due to the creature comforts onboard (i.e. increased humidity). However, a look at the seat maps shows you the big difference between those two birds:

787 J Seat Layout:


777 Seat Layout:



I don't know about you folks, but I'd much prefer not having a neighbour particularly during this time of COVID.

-RooFlyer88

 

[hutch]

Either that or some airlines have better sweet spots for saver business class availability than others and may or may not offer points on sale at a 100% bonus. When you can fly Air Canada from Sydney to Toronto for 160,000 miles return in business class (plus a small amount of taxes and fees) why would anyone bother with cash fares again?

Another example I absolutely love is United. 35,000 miles + $600 co-pay to upgrade your Australia to Europe United itinerary from the cheapest economy fare to Polaris business class? Yes please!

-RooFlyer88

Not disputing you can get a cheaper airfare than Qantas, or can use points... But if QF is able sell seats at that price, which evidently they can, then good luck to them.

Not everyone is in the points game. Most people couldn't tell you what plane they flew on.

 

[jb747]

Bring back Dick Smith (or not)...

No.

 

[jb747]

Probably just as well the flights in both directions are “day” flights from a point of origin perspective, and maybe this is a factor why QF management think this is OK for cabin crew. (???).

Outbound flight leaves at 10am and arrive at 11:30pm Brisbane time. A long day but no full night.

But the already jet lagged crew on the return would be in a lot worse situation with a 10:20 departure and 01:30 arrival LA time

The logic doesn’t really hold up. They would not have been in the USA long enough for a 10am start to be ‘day’ on their body clocks. Wake up time in the hotel would be around 6:30 am, which, back home is roughly midnight. It was rare on US trips to ever get to sleep before dawn. So, the reality is that the crew will be starting the flight having little to no sleep, and that won’t change during the trip. As the pilots will be the same, and they don’t have a proper crew rest either, it’s a flight that I’d be avoiding … as a passenger or crew.

 

[Daver6]

A face mask is not obstructing the oxygen mask being presented in front of you. A blanket is.

 

[drron]

I would assume a business charges as much as the market is willing to pay.

Fortunately for QF the market is basically ignorant.
As I have said previously 20 years ago we could get 2 J fares on JAL BNE - JFK return for slightly less than 1 QF return J fare.
Plus JAL had lie flat J seats, QF didn't. And the soft product? Well JAL was just so far ahead it wasn't funny.

 

[dajop]

The logic doesn’t really hold up. They would not have been in the USA long enough for a 10am start to be ‘day’ on their body clocks. Wake up time in the hotel would be around 6:30 am, which, back home is roughly midnight. It was rare on US trips to ever get to sleep before dawn. So, the reality is that the crew will be starting the flight having little to no sleep, and that won’t change during the trip. As the pilots will be the same, and they don’t have a proper crew rest either, it’s a flight that I’d be avoiding … as a passenger or crew.

Oh I agree with you. But you’ve got to admit that maybe that’s the sort of logic the QF management would use?

I think I recall an abc news story where the FA Union was arguing for an extra night in LA because of the crew rest situation on board.

 

[Greg555]

https://www.news.com.au/travel/qant...s/news-story/c52f43b418c0b8d723c49e1c8b3a2e93

Qantas seem to find a new way every day to lower our opinions of them!

My opinion of Qantas cannot get much lower.

This is another example of the laughable management of this company. Why are domestic/int. short medium haul metal being used for the USA routes - because Joyce and crew are incompetent - in fleet planning and most other skills required to run an airline.

Got to run.... need to call Qantas about my 9 and 6 mth outstanding refunds, get put on hold for 6 hrs and after finally getting to explain my problem have the agent hand up on me......

There are lots of ways to fly to the USA - and not on 20yo A330s.....

 

[Must...Fly!]

Age of the aircraft shouldn't matter - see Finnair.

I'm not here to defend Qantas but isn't at least some of this problem due to suspended Boeing 787 deliveries?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Age of the aircraft shouldn't matter - see Finnair.

I'm not here to defend Qantas but isn't at least some of this problem due to suspended Boeing 787 deliveries?

Expanding to new routes when you don’t have the planes? DEL and FCO for example. And using 787s instead of a380s to DFW.

 

[justinbrett]

Can we just have one thread that doesn’t descend into yet another Qantas rant thread? This is supposed to be about FA crew rest on A330s, not whether you approve of QF’s aircraft utilisation.