Rubbish article: Health Authorities Apparently Lied About Wearing Masks. [Incorrect]

[Renato1]

I must admit that for the last two and a half weeks I have had doubts about Fox News.

This was because the first time I ever saw the nonsense spouted about the Face-Masks- should-not -be-worn- by -normal-people line was by Dr Marc Siegal on a weekend Fox program, where in an extended piece, he parroted the CDC and WHO line.

But Dr. Siegel redeemed himself the other day on Tucker Carlson Tonight, demonstrating how a face mask should be worn correctly, stating that after going out and wearing it, it should be taken off carefully and washed, and one should wash one's hands after taking it off, and that he had changed his mind - that while he doesn't think the general public needs one when walking out in the open, he now thinks it may well be useful when interacting with other people.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Max Samuels]

Man Renato I think soooooooooo many people on here owe you an apology!! Good luck getting one though.
Is anyone following the developing stories (global media outlets) that the WHO guidelines of NOT wearing masks is probably linked to Chinese Government attempt to buy up the global stock? And that WHO is pretty much now confirmed to be a puppet of the CCP? And that the dodgy guy who runs it, from Etheopia, with no medical background, is most likely being paid by the CCP? And the very same person, is being held responsible for delaying the real news of the virus from being released, probably at the request of the CCP?

I won't post any links to any articles - I don't want my choice of news source to influence anyone - but I am sure keyboard warriors such as ourselves are quite capable of doing our own searches!

Renato - I totally disagree with your thing about Pepsi being better than Champagne, but in this regard, looks like you were spot on!

Tokyo, 30 million people, not having the meltdown anywhere near like NYC, Italy etc... very crowded. Packed trains. Why no sick? I reckon its the masks. Always have thought that....

 

[drron]

Max I am sure that this source is agreeable to most.

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[tgh]

I copped a lot of flak a month or so ago and I am sorely tempted to replay all the drivel that was heaped on me about masks.
A lot of posters need to have a good look at themselves over this.

 

[get me outta here]

Just for the record, “That Ethiopian” has some qualifications in the area :

Born in the city of Asmara, Eritrea, Dr Tedros holds a Doctorate of Philosophy (PhD) in Community Health from the University of Nottingham and a Master of Science (MSc) in Immunology of Infectious Diseases from the University of London. Dr Tedros is globally recognised as a health scholar, researcher, and diplomat with first-hand experience in research, operations, and leadership in emergency responses to epidemics.

He received the Decoration of the Order of Serbian Flag in 2016, and was awarded the Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter Humanitarian Award in recognition of his contributions to the field of public health in 2011.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I copped a lot of flak a month or so ago and I am sorely tempted to replay all the drivel that was heaped on me about masks.
A lot of posters need to have a good look at themselves over this.

Why? Perhaps review the logic. The logic of the use of masks here in Australia was sound then and it is still sound now. Wearing masks several weeks ago with the small number of infections about would have been a pretty pointless exercise, and if you had limited stock you may have used them up rather than saving them for a time when they may actually be of some real use to you. Masks were in short supply then, but are more available now.

What has changed is in the USA that infection is widespread and so there are people who are now spreaders walking the streets. In addition in the USA they have no idea who may have it as contact tracing basically does not exist. The advice weeks ago was that those that spread should wear masks. This is just acting on that advice. The USA needs their spreaders to wear home made masks. Ditto in the UK where CV19 is now more widespread and testing and contact tracing have been minimal as well.

Both countries are seeking to try and stop their abundant number of unknown spreaders from spreading.

Dr Fauci also again reinforced to not take masks that health workers need.

The advice weeks ago here in Australia was that there was a shortage of PPE, and so N95 masks should be left for health workers and the like. This advice has not changed, N95s should still be left to health workers. Social distancing is working here and the need to wear a mask in public has changed little. What has also changed though is that mask production and sourcing has been ramping up. So masks are not as rare as they were. Supply has increased. So as long as your are not using PPE for health workers you can wear it if you wish, though in Australia with our current infection rate it will do little.



Now if you have comorbities or are in a high risk group it pays to be more cautious. But if so, then as now you should be Staying at home and have others do your shopping etc for you.

 

[Pushka]

I was listening to a Professor from LA university who has been on the radio a few times. He has an excellent and calm manner of describing what is happening and what to expect.

Of course the subject of wearing masks came up. He said they were a great idea. Oh. Then went on to explain that they were a great idea to stop your vapour droplets landing on someone else, so they were not protecting you but those you are with. Which of course, has been practised in many polite Asian countries for many years. He said wear a buff or a handmade protection but not to use the masks required for medical services.

I have a cute photo of friends of ours arriving into Melbourne airport then Adelaide airport last Wednesday from Perth. They were filmed by the media and on the nightly news in Melbourne, coming down the escalator with both wearing big black masks and he wearing a hat. Quite funny. They are now in self isolation and very happy to comply.

 

[Renato1]

Well, a lot has happened since I posted this thread, to which a Moderator later added "Rubbish Article".

The CDC in America reversed its utterly stupid recommendations about masks, totally vindicating the New York Times piece and the Tucker Carlson's position on Fox News.

Instead of telling people not to wear masks, the CDC now advises them to wear masks and - if they don't have any - to use cloth or scarves around faces as pretend masks.

It was hilarious watching the US Surgeon General on Fox News trying to explain his back flip from his earlier very public anti-mask position, where he was explaining that they didn't have enough information about asypmtotic coronavirus spread back then when they held the first position.

My wife was laughing saying "Look - every time he lies he stutters" as he kept stuttering over the no-masks issue, then losing his stutter the minute other issues were raised.

Anyhow, I was up at my favourite Vietnamese grocer in Springvale South the other day. He had plenty of surgical masks. Heaps of boxes of 50 masks each going for a mere $78 a box.

Which is incredibly good value, as my cousin in Italy was telling me that their surgical masks cost 2.5 Euros each, that they have to wear them when they go out, and they have to throw them out after four hours.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Happy Trails]

Now mandatory in coughet:

coughET: The provincial communicable disease committee on Tuesday issued an order requiring people going outdoors to always wear a face mask, or face a fine of up to 20,000 baht.

The order, signed by governor Pakkapong Tawipat, took effect immediately, until further notice.

Violation of this order is liable to a fine of up to 20,000 baht under Section 51 of the Communicable Diseases ct of 2015, and may be punishable under the executive decree for administration in emergency situations, which is currently in force.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1895005/face-masks-compulsory-in-coughet

 

[banana boy]

Why? Perhaps review the logic. The logic of the use of masks here in Australia was sound then and it is still sound now.

No it wasn't and no it isn't and no it never has been. If the current episode breaks the seemingly "Anglo" aversion to wearing masks so much the better*.

Maybe if Australians with respiratory infections habitually wore masks rather than going out bare faced whilst coughing up half a lung we wouldn't experience so many issues with all the other respiratory viruses.

Sure the current situation calls for drastic measures and even asymptomatic people need to be wearing masks in public. But unless everyone wears one then it won't stop a pandemic. Which is why it likely should be compulsory with draconian fines.

(*I am an "Anglo" and uncomfortable wearing a mask and guilty of not wearing one when I am sick. It'd be a nice habit to break but why protect others if they won't protect me?)

 

[lovetravellingoz]

No it wasn't and no it isn't and no it never has been. If the current episode breaks the seemingly "Anglo" aversion to wearing masks so much the better*.

Maybe if Australians with respiratory infections habitually wore masks rather than going out bare faced whilst coughing up half a lung we wouldn't experience so many issues with all the other respiratory viruses.

Sure the current situation calls for drastic measures and even asymptomatic people need to be wearing masks in public. But unless everyone wears one then it won't stop a pandemic. Which is why it likely should be compulsory with draconian fines.

(*I am an "Anglo" and uncomfortable wearing a mask and guilty of not wearing one when I am sick. It'd be a nice habit to break but why protect others if they won't protect me?)

You are actually agreeing with me as the logic is that masks worn by the general public are primarily used prevent or limit transmission rather than to prevent an individual from catching a virus.


And yes hopefully in future whenever some has a flu, coronavirus (including the common cold) etc they will amend their behaviours are not continue to try and still go to work and be spreaders... plus whenever still out to wear a mask, but even better to try and not be out.

Hopefully too we will also all continue with better handwashing as this has always been a problem, and yes handshaking needs to go the way of the dodo.


What is "normal" in the future will be different. The depression shaped its generation. CV19 will shape the behaviour of all those now alive for the rest of our lives.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Just listening to the latest modelling in the USA which has fed in current data and practices. The CDC now estimating around 80,000 deaths in the USA rather than 100-240K.

Social distancing being flagged by them as the key tool, and their current assumption being that social distancing will need to be strict in the USA till at least the first week in June to achieve this.


PS: I also liked the quote that no modelling is accurate, but some modelling is useful.

Any model is flawed as the data is always based on assumption that may or may not happen. And modelling is based on data that may or may not have been accurate as well. Plus things change as practices and treatments, and eventually even the vaccine when deployed are all guessed to have certain effectiveness's and the reality will also be different whether up or down.

Models are "live" beasts that will need tweaking as time goes by.

 

[Pushka]

Just listening to the latest modelling in the USA which has fed in current data and practices. The CDC now estimating around 80,000 deaths in the USA rather than 10-240K.

Was that 100K - 240k? (not 10?)

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Was that 100K - 240k? (not 10?)

Yes typo. 100-240K

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yes typo. 100-240K

Also the main driver in the reduction was that they were assuming that only 50% of Americans would embrace social distancing, but the reality is that the uptake has now been high.

This also despite some USA States still not making it compulsory. Fortunately Americans at large are belatedly proving to be wiser than some of their leaders.

 

[Princess Fiona]

And we have come full circle.
Article from the British Medical Journal in favour of public mask wearing.
BMJ

TL;DR

• The precautionary principle states we should sometimes act without definitive evidence, just in case
• Whether masks will reduce transmission of covid-19 in the general public is contested
• Even limited protection could prevent some transmission of covid-19 and save lives
• Because covid-19 is such a serious threat, wearing masks in public should be advised

 

[Pushka]

And we have come full circle.
Article from the British Medical Journal in favour of public mask wearing.
BMJ

TL;DR

• The precautionary principle states we should sometimes act without definitive evidence, just in case
• Whether masks will reduce transmission of covid-19 in the general public is contested
• Even limited protection could prevent some transmission of covid-19 and save lives
• Because covid-19 is such a serious threat, wearing masks in public should be advised

Do you think that the original advice was simply based around lack of supply, even for medical people, rather than sound scientific principles because I have always thought that wearing some kind of face covering in normal life was a good idea for others to stop spilling their bugs on to me, rather than me wearing one to protect me.
But it is stuff like this that helps to generate conspiracy theories and general distrust of "The Science".

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We have come full circle, but perhaps with a different set of circumstances now? ‘Round 1’ were cases coming from overseas, with quarantine required. Risk of community transmission was low. Masks and other PPE was guarded for use by front-line staff, if required.

Community transmission is a different set of risks.

 

[tgh]

I may just change my byline to :

Prescience is a curse because the lemmings will not listen….

 

[lovetravellingoz]

And we have come full circle.
Article from the British Medical Journal in favour of public mask wearing.
BMJ

TL;DR

• The precautionary principle states we should sometimes act without definitive evidence, just in case
• Whether masks will reduce transmission of covid-19 in the general public is contested
• Even limited protection could prevent some transmission of covid-19 and save lives
• Because covid-19 is such a serious threat, wearing masks in public should be advised

Full circle or just the same? (Though note that a high level of community spread in Victoria at present means mask wearing is now recommended for the public at large)

For the health worker (and others in high risk environments) who are much more likely to be in an environment where protection is important, and each and every shift (and not just from Covid 19) wearing a mask is primarily about individual protection. Though if the worker becomes infected it is also important (With community spread in Victoria at present most healthworkers are being infected outside of the workplace). So healthworkers when in such an environment should wear a mask, and where appropriate other PPE.

For the public, mask wearing is mainly about protecting others. But it also imparts some protection for the he with the level depending on the mask type and the ability of the individual to wear it .

If ill with a disease that breathing, coughing , sneazing etc can spread wear a mask.

If there is significant community spread the population at large should wear masks. ie Vic at present.

N95 and above masks provide the best protection from Covid 19 BUT are still in limited supply even if that supply is much better than it was back in March. So the general public just for everyday use should not seek out N95's, and again the primary goal is to limit transmission (though yes some benefit in person protection).

• So for example in Vic with compulsory mask wearing outside of one's home if everyone only wore a N95 mask, that could be each day 2- 5 million N95s masks each and every day (depends on how often people go out and how many days per week they go out). Remember that you cannot wear just one mask all day, and that they are not reusable. So some people would need several such masks per day. Others could use just the one to say cover a shopping trip. Such numbers would rapidly chew through the available N95 mask supply and not leave enough for the people that really need them
• So for the general public please just stick to cloth masks (preferably the recommended THREE layer ones) and the now widely available single use medical type mask (ie not the N95's).

PS:
People who are in the high risk groups may wish to be better protected as their risk is greater.

If there is community spread, then assume that everyone is infected and maintain 1.5m plus at all times, and minimise all trips.