[Rumours] Qantas not Jetstar to get the 787-8

[drewbles]

It is going to be quite a while before any airline in the QF group see the 787. Perhaps we could open a book on who will eventually get it and what the first route will be. I think we would soon cover QFd, QFi, JQ and every route they fly. And probably still be wrong!
Time will tell.

QF are getting their 787's starting from next year, so it's not so far. 12 months isn't a long wait (where the hell did this year go!).

 

[ftm]

Given QF have already sold the 787 simulator, I don't think its likely.

FTM

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[dajop]

SIN wont work as a LCC stopover because it's probably the most expensive city in SEA to stay in. KL works will for Air Asia because it's cheap, easy and interesting. If JQ hubbed out of BKK I think that would be perfect - allow people a 1 - 7 day stopover in BKK on their way to and from Europe - I think this would be really popular with backpackers. JQ A330s could fly into BKK from PER, MEL, ADL, SYD and BNE each early evening then continue on to each of AMS, LGW, FCO, BCN, ORY etc.

I think backpackers love LCC's for getting around within a region, whether it be SE Asia, AUS/NZ, Europe or elsewhere, but given the Air Asia X experience, not sure they are so keen on them for long haul, especially given a range of cheap full service alternatives. e.g., Ex-Europe TG seem already to do quite well out getting backpackers to Thailand (not sure about ex-Australia). If I were a QF shareholder I would not be wanting QF to spend the capital on setting up these services, which would be speculative and risky, and would have to go up against many established carriers (some with deep pockets) that connect SW Pacific/Asia/Europe, often already at LCC-esque prices, this includes China Southern, Air China, Emirates, Qatar, Vietnam Airlines, Royal Brunei, Garuda, Etihad, Thai and I'm sure others. I am sure there are better opportunities out there intra-Asia, that don't involve 11-12 hour non-stops flights.

 

[JessicaTam]

QF are getting their 787's starting from next year, so it's not so far. 12 months isn't a long wait (where the hell did this year go!).

But 12 months is a long time when it comes to airline announcements - and Boeing delivery schedules.

Yes, it would theoretically be possible to do LHR-PER. Of the course the deciding variable is with what sort of load. If loads have to be limited to allow enough fuel to be carried then that's going to cut back cargo capacity and raise the breakeven yield level. Additionally you're then taking an aircraft with significantly few seats than the A380 into LHR - no point giving up a slot for an A380 from DXB to LHR to allow a less profitable PER-LHR flight direct access - so the yield hurdle for the PER-LHR flight goes up again. (Remember that QF finds it more profitable to lease out its slots at LHR than use them itself). So it would only work on a route with significant premium cabin traffic.
...

SQ have SIN-EWR that tips the scales at 18 & 1/2 hours. An all J A340-500 flight to reduce loads. Still Yikes! :shock:

 

[Robert Qld]

So in theory LHR-PER direct at 7828nm would be possible with a 787-9. Of course you then have certain gov't requirements which need to be sorted, plus of course like DFW-BNE, all it would take is an unfavorable wind to slow you down to require a stop.

I wonder if anyone would like to be in the air for 20 odd hours direct. It would certainly be a killer in Y.

What is even worse is not the 20 hours PER-LHR, but then the living hell that is immigration at LHR at the end of the journey! At least (in my exprience) immigration at DFW was a rather pleasant and painless experience!

What I've always wondered is, if delayed through head winds et cetera, PER-LHR wouldn't have an issue with unplanned fuel stop options, but the LHR-PER would have alot of empty water and not many options (Columbo? Christmas Island? - or would the route be further south? - Seychelles/Chargos? - I cannot honestly recall) for a unplanned fuel landing.

 

[vitagen]

Would be good to see the 787 do the medium hauls, syd-hnl, syd/mel to sin/hkg and per-hkg and per-akl.


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[mannej]

What I've always wondered is, if delayed through head winds et cetera, PER-LHR wouldn't have an issue with unplanned fuel stop options, but the LHR-PER would have alot of empty water and not many options (Columbo? Christmas Island? - or would the route be further south? - Seychelles/Chargos? - I cannot honestly recall) for a unplanned fuel landing.

I am sure fuel stops from PER-DXB has been raised before, but you can always ask JB.

If you were doing it on a twin jet, you would need to be within a certain time distance from a diversion point.

 

[codash1099]

According to the same blog Air NZ get there 787-9 (the 250+ seat version but almost double the range 15,000km+) in July 2014

But i dont think that would push QF into getting them and it seems weird that they are refitting the 767's unless they have found a problem doing that.:shock:

Have Boeing started building one yet?

 

[oz_mark]

Have Boeing started building one yet?

Assembly of the first one (or at least some of its components) commenced a month or two back.

 

[yohy?!]

given how much of a dog the SIN-MEL and SIN-AKL flights have been for JQi and AAX not being able to make long haul LCC flights work seems possible that some 787s might find their way into the mainline. how many would they need to ditch the 767s for good?

 

[drewbles]

Given QF have already sold the 787 simulator, I don't think its likely.

FTM

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Got a link to this? All I see is:

CAE sells two Boeing 787 simulators to Qantas, one B787 to China Eastern Airlines and one B737 to KLM Royal Dutch Airlines for a total value of C$67 million | Stock Market Summary (NSDQ, NYSE, AMEX and more) on Boston.com

The Sale of 2 SIM's *to* QF but cannot find anywhere that they're selling either. JQ still need them.

 

[drron]

NZ says it will have the 787-9 first.The first to fly according to Boeing will be in second half 2013.
Boeing Affirms Delivery Target for First 787-9 Dreamliner - Businessweek

 

[ftm]

Got a link to this? All I see is:

CAE sells two Boeing 787 simulators to Qantas, one B787 to China Eastern Airlines and one B737 to KLM Royal Dutch Airlines for a total value of C$67 million | Stock Market Summary (NSDQ, NYSE, AMEX and more) on Boston.com

The Sale of 2 SIM's *to* QF but cannot find anywhere that they're selling either. JQ still need them.

That article is several year old. My understanding is that Jetstar were given the opportunity to take over the sim, but it was still sold.

FTM

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[drewbles]

That article is several year old. My understanding is that Jetstar were given the opportunity to take over the sim, but it was still sold.

FTM

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I realise the link is old, but my point was I cannot find a link saying they sold them. QF would have bought them as a group, not for QF exclusive use. The 330 Sim's are not for JQ only as they also fly 330's in the QF colours.

Did you have a link to any article saying they sold it? That would be quite the cause for concern.

 

[JohnK]

Also, how about the premium carrier, Qantas, flying via the Middle East, while the LCC, Jetstar, flying via Asia. Both head to Europe, but just take different routes. You choose which you want.

That would work much better the other way around....

 

[dajop]

given how much of a dog the SIN-MEL and SIN-AKL flights have been for JQi

I think you're right on SIN-AKL. I'm not so convinced that SIN-MEL flights have been dogs, if pricing is anything to go by. Last two times I have done SIN-MEL returns both times QF were selling fares around the same price as the JQ luggage/meal-less fares (admittedly one of those occasions it was SIN-PER-MEL-SIN on QF). Even looking at some random dates in March, QF10/9 are only about $100-150SGD more than the luggage inclusive JQ fares. Given this pricing, I'm not so sure these services are such a dog.

 

[moa999]

Scoot is taking
20 of SQs 787s

Scoot to buy 20 Boeing 787s - flights from 2014 - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

 

[Awesom Andy]

I think you're right on SIN-AKL. I'm not so convinced that SIN-MEL flights have been dogs, if pricing is anything to go by. Last two times I have done SIN-MEL returns both times QF were selling fares around the same price as the JQ luggage/meal-less fares (admittedly one of those occasions it was SIN-PER-MEL-SIN on QF). Even looking at some random dates in March, QF10/9 are only about $100-150SGD more than the luggage inclusive JQ fares. Given this pricing, I'm not so sure these services are such a dog.

I haven't done SIN-AKL for a while, but the last time I was on it, the loads certainly were not spectacular. And I would guess that even a 787 wouldn't fix that.

Personally, I still think it makes the most sense at the moment to send the 787 to JQ, and have them based in SIN. The excess A333 can be sent back to QF, which are somewhat already configured for QF domestic use. Then the 767s can finally retire.

The alternative is to have the 787 doing the rounds for QF domestic, but that will leave JQ with a fleet of A330s, which doesn't seem to quite make sense for an LCC (not that I ever approved of the LCC model used for mid-long haul flights).