Safety, children and oxygen masks

[MEL_Traveller]

No, there isn't any regulation that requires parents to be seated with children. As long as they are in the same cabin then there is no problem. They could be seated in front, behind, across, or over the other side of the parents so wished (but rarely happens).

If there is no regulation requiring parents (or other suitable person) to be seated in close proximity then that surprises me.

It has been shown that during an emergency evacuation a parent is likely to try and seek out their child and will even go against the flow of exiting passengers in order to secure their child's safety.

If there is no regulation and an airline allowed parents to be separated from their children (like more than one or two rows away) then the airline may well have a case of negligence to answer in the event any parent held up the flow of passengers during an emergency.

I am sure there must be an airline policy in place to cover this even if it is not the law per se?

 

[straitman]

If there is no regulation requiring parents (or other suitable person) to be seated in close proximity then that surprises me.

It has been shown that during an emergency evacuation a parent is likely to try and seek out their child and will even go against the flow of exiting passengers in order to secure their child's safety.

If there is no regulation and an airline allowed parents to be separated from their children (like more than one or two rows away) then the airline may well have a case of negligence to answer in the event any parent held up the flow of passengers during an emergency.

I am sure there must be an airline policy in place to cover this even if it is not the law per se?

With this in mind how would you address the issue of unaccompanied minors who are frequently sat together as a group :?:

 

[Happy Trails]

A ryanair aircraft and its crew only realized they had an issue when they were deployed, its fair to say the possibility of another Payne Stewart incident was likely had they not deployed:

http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/3496-0.pdf

The Aloha and UA incidents both had damage to the oxy system preventing an accurate assessment of their help in those situation.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Ryanair incident was an interesting read; I liked the bit where the crew just jumped on a spare aircraft and finished their four sectors and a 12 hour shift – priceless.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But fairly slim pickings from fifty-odd years of pressurised air travel.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]While I remain to be convinced of their actual usefulness, should the occasion ever arise, no doubt I'll be the one elbowing women and children out of the way while I grab my mask.[/FONT]

 

[straitman]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]While I remain to be convinced of their actual usefulness, should the occasion ever arise, no doubt I'll be the one elbowing women and children out of the way while I grab my mask.[/FONT]

What convincing do you need :?:

I have been trying to think of a better wording but it did not come.

 

[Happy Trails]

What convincing do you need :?:

I have been trying to think of a better wording but it did not come.

OK, poorly worded perhaps; I'll revert to my original query:


Do oxygen masks serve any useful purpose anyway?
I'm not aware of any incident where their deployment has made a significant difference to the outcome. But I'm happy to be enlightened.


Markis10 gave one example and a couple of possibles.


That doesn't seem much in 50+ years.


Again, I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

With this in mind how would you address the issue of unaccompanied minors who are frequently sat together as a group :?:

The issue only arises if parents (or other accompanying adult) are travelling with their children. The mother/father (or person responsible) will usually seek to find their child to ensure their safety.

If children are travelling unaccompanied there is no parent trying to go against 50 people to rescue their child before exiting the aircraft.

My comments were in response to an earlier poster who said there are no regulations requiring parents to be sat with their children (other than in the same cabin).

That is a potential life-threatening situation to the parent, the child (who may not want to leave the aircraft without their parent) and to all other passengers.

 

[medhead]

OK, poorly worded perhaps; I'll revert to my original query:


Do oxygen masks serve any useful purpose anyway?
I'm not aware of any incident where their deployment has made a significant difference to the outcome. But I'm happy to be enlightened.


Markis10 gave one example and a couple of possibles.


That doesn't seem much in 50+ years.


Again, I'm happy to be corrected.

Of course masks serve a useful purpose. Hypoxia will kill eventually. The masks prevent that while the aircraft descends. There were a few examples given that highlight this point, by the fact that people have died due to decompression.

Having said that explosive decompression adds a whole heap of extra risks. But at least the masks give an extra 15 minutes to get to a breathable atmosphere

 

[Happy Trails]

Of course masks serve a useful purpose. Hypoxia will kill eventually. The masks prevent that while the aircraft descends. There were a few examples given that highlight this point, by the fact that people have died due to decompression.

Having said that explosive decompression adds a whole heap of extra risks. But at least the masks give an extra 15 minutes to get to a breathable atmosphere

I'm not disputing the dangers of hypoxia, or the rationale for having oxygen masks; I'm enquiring about actual events where they've been deployed and made a significant difference to the wellbeing of the passengers.
So far, it seems, not too many.

 

[Siegfried]

... explosive decompression adds a whole heap of extra risks...

medhead, I think you have just become the undisputed champion of the understatement

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not disputing the dangers of hypoxia, or the rationale for having oxygen masks; I'm enquiring about actual events where they've been deployed and made a significant difference to the wellbeing of the passengers.
So far, it seems, not too many.

You may well have a point re the actual usefulness of oxygen masks... much the same as lifejackets which are rarely used.

Perhaps it is time to really have a comprehensive review of safety equipment and procedures on board aircraft - for example, should we be swapping something like oxygen masks/lifejackets (or rather, the space they take) for something like smokehoods?

I know there is an argument that smokehoods, while giving extra seconds to escape, could actually impede exit from the aircraft because they are either (a) bulky or (b) could give people a false sense of security and make an evacuation seem less urgent. However - I can't see the difference between wearing a smokehood and a lifejacket when it comes to bukiness (and supposedly quite a few pax inflate the lifejacket before getting anywhere near an exit).

What about rear facing seats? - much safer during an impact.

 

[medhead]

medhead, I think you have just become the undisputed champion of the understatement

Well IMO the discussion is about masks only. But I felt the need to acknowledge the elephant in the room without being side tracked

 

[medhead]

I'm not disputing the dangers of hypoxia, or the rationale for having oxygen masks; I'm enquiring about actual events where they've been deployed and made a significant difference to the wellbeing of the passengers.
So far, it seems, not too many.

Fortunately there haven't been too many decompression incidents. The Helios accident would be one where masks made a difference. Of course that the pilots didn't descend also made a big difference.

 

[NM]

It would be interesting to hear from JB747 about the effectiveness or oxygen masks for the flight crew, cabin crew and passengers when QF30 had its decompression experience over The Philippines. That resulted in quite a hole in the aircraft skin, but just how quickly did the cabin pressure drop and what cabin altitude was reached during the decent?