Saturated baggage - but Virgin won't own it

[Ian Duckworth]

I have just joined the AFF community and would be interested to know if anyone has had a similar experience to me - and what the outcome was.

Flying recently with Virgin from Gold Coast (OOL) to Canberra (CBR), flights were delayed out of OOL due to a torrential downpour which closed the tarmac.

After about 45 minutes of teaming rain, a few patrons in the Virgin Lounge started muttering about a baggage carriage that had been left out on the tarmac and that was clearly getting soaked. The prevailing view seemed to be, I don't know whose bags are out there but I hope it's not mine.

Fast forward a few hours and the rain had eased; my flight took off and I arrive in CBR - only to find my bag is completely waterlogged. The baggage counter was closed (if you were cynical, you could conclude they did a runner knowing the barrage of complaints that were heading their way); and so a sign said to direct any enquiries to check in staff - which I did but which resulted in "you need to lodge a claim - so just go onto our website.

In the 12 hoers that followed, I had to purchase some dry clothing and made arrangements to visit a laundromat to dry the remaining items. In short, I lodged a claim and, after a few days, Virgin denied it, saying that it is a passengers' responsibility to ensure their luggage is waterproof.

I had the option of claiming on my travel insurance but, with my out of pocket expenses being not much more than my excess, it wasn't worth the hassle.

But I still think it is appalling that an airline - even if it is through their outsourced baggage handlers - can be so negligent and not be held accountable for the loss.

Any similar experiences out there with a better result?

 

[markis10]

Welcome to AFF, sorry to hear of your experience, it’s not uncommon especially ex OOL. Sadly water damage is not something the airline is liable for, as most likely it was the result of an act of god and the baggage handlers escaping from an act of god, usually a storm. Had you packed your luggage in a paper bag the same outcome would be had, for the same reasons. Travel insurance is often your friend here

 

[Freq Flier 2013]

Singapore airlines compensated us when exactly this occurred with our fights from Singapore to Taiwan 12 months ago.

 

[Saab34]

Had the same issue with JetBlue a while back. Bit of back and forth but I got my compensation I was chasing.

Airlines here are notoriously bad historically for not doing much.

 

[justinbrett]

My bag was soaked flying into SYD last week, but I have a hard case so was no problem. I did feel for those with soft bags.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Welcome to AFF, sorry to hear of your experience, it’s not uncommon especially ex OOL. Sadly water damage is not something the airline is liable for, as most likely it was the result of an act of god and the baggage handlers escaping from an act of god, usually a storm. Had you packed your luggage in a paper bag the same outcome would be had, for the same reasons. Travel insurance is often your friend here

Not sure I agree! Airlines take responsibility for the correct handling of your luggage.

If they know an airport is prone to rain they should contract with their handlers to provide covered wagons and covered loading ramps to the aircraft. This is common in Asia and India where you have downpours.

VA’s policy and terms and conditions of carriage do not exclude water damage, and they provide a list of damage which is excluded: Delayed and damaged baggage

That being said… good luck trying to engage VA

Noting too that it would be covered for international travel where the Montreal Convention applies.

 

[markis10]

VA’s policy and terms and conditions of carriage do not exclude water damage, and they provide a list of damage which is excluded: Delayed and damaged baggage

They do exclude damage as a result of a defect, baggage not being waterproof would be a defect, just like my paper bag example. Maybe one day all luggage will need an IP rating or a Hydrostatic head rating.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

They do exclude damage as a result of a defect, baggage not being waterproof would be a defect, just like my paper bag example. Maybe one day all luggage will need an IP rating or a Hydrostatic head rating.

i’ll disagree on that one too! It is not a reasonable expectation that bags will be left out in a downpour.

As a passenger I may expect my bag to come into contact with rain for a very short period during the immediate loading and unloading of the bag from the hold… and my soft-sided bag is fine with that. But I don’t expect to be left outside and unprotected.

Airlines identifying a defective bag can ask passengers to sign a waiver on the bag tag or by a separate form in which the passenger accepts liability. This is not something airlines do simply because a bag is soft-sided.

 

[sydunipete]

Singapore airlines compensated us when exactly this occurred with our fights from Singapore to Taiwan 12 months ago.

In my experience SQ is excellent with "baggage irregularities". On a flight SYD-SIN-SGN my bag was delayed and arrived on a later flight. When I went to the desk at SGN luggage claim they just gave me a very generous amount of local cash and the bag arrived a few hours later at my hotel.

 

[Quickstatus]

@Ian Duckworth
Welcome to AFF
Sorry about the bags

I would not be surprised if the Baggage handlers had to stop because of certain rules pertaining to working outside in a storm??
VA is responsible for handling your baggage however their liability is limited:

19.7(c) "Virgin Australia is not liable for any damage that results from the inherent defect, quality or vice of the Baggage"
Inherent defect - defect due to design, workmanship at the time of construction
Inherent quality - the essential character of the item
Inherent vice - the tendency for objects to deteriorate over time

The design and character of the soft shell bag unfortunately means it is not waterproof.

When I went to the desk at SGN luggage claim they just gave me a very generous amount of local cash

SQ/Changi seem to have cash located at various help desks
Once we were overbooked on a connecting SIN-SYD after arriving from KUL so could not board
Rebooked to one 4 hrs later

5 pax = the agent pulled out SGD$2500 cash from his desk + meal vouchers for everyone (No status travelling Y)

 

[Quickstatus]

When I went to the desk at SGN luggage claim they just gave me a very generous amount of local cash

SQ seem to have cash located at various desks
Once we were overbooked on a SIN-SYD
Rebooked to one 4 hrs later

5 pax = the agent pulled out SGD$2500 cash from his desk + meal vouchers for everyone.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

@Ian Duckworth
Welcome to AFF
Sorry about the bags

I would not be surprised if the Baggage handlers had to stop because of certain rules pertaining to working outside in a storm??
VA is responsible for handling your baggage however their liability is limited:

19.7(c) "Virgin Australia is not liable for any damage that results from the inherent defect, quality or vice of the Baggage"
Inherent defect - defect due to design, workmanship at the time of construction
Inherent quality - the essential character of the item
Inherent vice - the tendency for objects to deteriorate over time

The design and character of the soft shell bag unfortunately means it is not waterproof.

So the same bag is covered for international travel under the montreal convention, but not for domestic?

I don’t agree the VA carve-outs apply simply because it is a soft-sided bag. This is however where markis10’s ‘paper bag’ scenario might be applicable. But in those circumstances the airline should be asking the passenger to sign a waiver.

Yes, ramp handlers may need to return during bad weather, but why not drive the baggage cart back with you? Or if there are reasons for not being able to do so, why not have covered baggage carts and covered loading ramps?

The airline is responsible for the care of your baggage… and leaving it outside in a downpour is not something I’d reasonably expect as a passenger.

There is a difference between a bag getting slightly wet on the outside and it being waterlogged.

 

[Quickstatus]

I don’t agree the VA carve-outs apply simply because it is a soft-sided bag

Neither do I
But VA CoC just defines their line in the sand. The other line in the sand is the Australian Consumer Guarantee and VA's line cannot be in front of the ACG line.
Essentially its all about how hard the customer is willing to push.

 

[RooFlyer]

I would say leaving a bag out in a storm and being soaked is similar to it being dropped from an unusual height and having something break inside. Goes beyond 'reasonable care' and is avoidable.

 

[Quickstatus]

similar to it being dropped from an unusual height and having something break inside

19.7(b)(iii) covers that too: any item of a delicate, fragile or brittle nature eg. glassware, sports equipment, musical instruments;

The following is not covered either but it begs the question of what IS covered.

• Scratches, dents or minor cuts
• Damage to or loss of straps, hooks or belts
• Broken wheels or feet
• Zips or locks
• Damage to retractable or fixed luggage handles
• Damage resulting from over packing
• Loss of damage to items listed in clauses 19.4 and 19.7 for domestic flights and clauses 19.5 and 19.7 for international flights of our Conditions of Carriage, except as required by law

 

[RooFlyer]

19.7(b)(iii) covers that too: any item of a delicate, fragile or brittle nature eg. glassware, sports equipment, musical instruments;

But I'm sure under consumer law they must treat the bag 'reasonably' or with 'care a reasonable person would expect' or similar. If they ran over the bag with a baggage truck thing I'd like to see them go 'tough luck' for any claim.

Which comes back to being left out in a downpour. If its in an area prone to sudden intense storms (at least OOL and to the north) then they should be using covered baggage truck things; or reasonable care used to see them not get soaked. Otherwise I'd argue that their care is not reasonable to take account of easily foreseeable circumstances.

@Ian Duckworth - welcome. Have you thought of putting that concept to them?

** A story of course. Years ago, I was standing in the Ansett Lounge at MEL watching our bags being loaded. In those days, 'laptops' were 'luggables' and they went into the hold in special padded cases; marked Fragile of course. We watched as the baggage handler systematically dropped every case from waist height onto the belt. As it happened a lounge person was standing right next to me and, from memory, she gasped. I had a damages claim in hand before I left the lounge.

 

[Quickstatus]

But I'm sure under consumer law they must treat the bag 'reasonably' or with 'care a reasonable person would expect' or similar. If they ran over the bag with a baggage truck thing I'd like to see them go 'tough luck' for any claim.

Agree,
but as I said, VA has a line in the sand with their CoC. They are hoping that customers dont cross it.

 

[RooFlyer]

VA has a line in the sand with their CoC.

Doesn't negate Australian consumer law. If it was me, I'd pursue it, although I have time on my hands.

 

[Quickstatus]

Doesn't negate Australian consumer law.

As per my point above in #13 - the ACG has a different line in the sand.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As per my point above in #13 - the ACG has a different line in the sand.

I initially thought it would be something in contract… but yeah, it seems to be pretty in line with consumer law… the provider must provide services with due care and skill, and take all necessary care to avoid loss or damage while providing the service.

But… it’s almost impossible to get your rights under ACL dealing with either the VA call centre or by email. The only place that can deal with these sorts of things seems to be Brisbane. I’d recommend an email to go there.