Saudi Arabia and Saudi Airlines

[RooFlyer]

I suspect as long as MBS is around and in charge we'll see Saudi continue to transition to try and be a leading tourist location.

Even 20 years ago, there was plenty of booze and regularly dressed people in walled and gated diplomatic compounds, (with their pools).# I don't think its hard to foresee in the current development push for the establishment of gated tourist 'enclaves' with booze and regular dress for all. Regular restrictions outside that.

# When I went there on business, we met a few times with the head of the Saudi mines dept. A minor dept in Saudi, but pretty big and well funded with a very urbane head. An expat told me that he knew his way around a western wine list better than most.

 

[justinbrett]

I watched this last week. Was enough for me to put on my "do not fly" list unless for some reason I need to fly SA domestic.

 

[elanshin]

I watched this last week. Was enough for me to put on my "do not fly" list unless for some reason I need to fly SA domestic.

I don't think Saudia is going to change much but thats also probably why Riyadh is being made as a sister airline. As I understand it, it won't be a dry airline and they talk of besting things like Qsuite and being the best in the sky.

I imagine we'll get info on RX's cabins sometime later this year.

 

[justinbrett]

I don't think Saudia is going to change much but thats also probably why Riyadh is being made as a sister airline. As I understand it, it won't be a dry airline and they talk of besting things like Qsuite and being the best in the sky.

I imagine we'll get info on RX's cabins sometime later this year.

I don't think that's correct.

“It’s very straightforward, really,” Douglas says. “We’ll work within the legal framework that is present at any point in time.”

“At the moment, alcohol is prohibited within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and therefore we will work with that as being the current legislation.”

“If over time things change, we’ll adapt and adjust accordingly.”

Riyadh Air delays launch to late 2025

A shortfall in Boeing 787 deliveries sees the Gulf startup push back its highly-anticipated launch.

www.executivetraveller.com

Considering they just made the World Cup dry, I wouldn't be holding out for it.

 

[elanshin]

I don't think that's correct.

“It’s very straightforward, really,” Douglas says. “We’ll work within the legal framework that is present at any point in time.”

“At the moment, alcohol is prohibited within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and therefore we will work with that as being the current legislation.”

“If over time things change, we’ll adapt and adjust accordingly.”

Riyadh Air delays launch to late 2025

A shortfall in Boeing 787 deliveries sees the Gulf startup push back its highly-anticipated launch.

www.executivetraveller.com

Considering they just made the World Cup dry, I wouldn't be holding out for it.

I understand WC being dry as it causes other issues with rowdy people on the streets.

The understanding most people that talked to Tony Douglas is that it won't be a dry airline, but technically that is not legal so things will supposedly change by the time they launch. Kind of like the resorts are saying wait a year or two and we might be able to serve alcohol.

If you consider their cabin crew uniform launch, there was most certainly alcohol served there - granted it is legal as it is in Paris, but a conscious decision was made to serve it where high ranking saudi officials were present. I think this says a lot about their intentions, whether they can figure out how to make the exceptions we'll see.

The understanding is that the brand "Riaydh" is trying also distance itself as a brand from Saudi kind of like Emirates distances itself from UAE (the country as a whole) and that in the future Riyadh will be a modern global brand was Riyadh Air as the flagship.

 

[justinbrett]

I understand WC being dry as it causes other issues with rowdy people on the streets.

The understanding most people that talked to Tony Douglas is that it won't be a dry airline, but technically that is not legal so things will supposedly change by the time they launch. Kind of like the resorts are saying wait a year or two and we might be able to serve alcohol.

If you consider their cabin crew uniform launch, there was most certainly alcohol served there - granted it is legal as it is in Paris, but a conscious decision was made to serve it where high ranking saudi officials were present. I think this says a lot about their intentions, whether they can figure out how to make the exceptions we'll see.

The understanding is that the brand "Riaydh" is trying also distance itself as a brand from Saudi kind of like Emirates distances itself from UAE (the country as a whole) and that in the future Riyadh will be a modern global brand was Riyadh Air as the flagship.

It was more a reflection of the governments attitude towards alcohol. It’s quite different to the UAE or Qatar.

We’ll see. I wouldn’t be holding my breath for it.

 

[jase05]

If people can’t go without alcohol for a few days then pick somewhere else. I love my alcohol but have never had a problem going dry in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Sharjah etc. Definitely not a deal breaker for me

 

[justinbrett]

If people can’t go without alcohol for a few days then pick somewhere else. I love my alcohol but have never had a problem going dry in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Sharjah etc. Definitely not a deal breaker for me

The point was more the airline - why would you fly a SA airline from say Australia to Europe, who charges the same as QR/EK etc yet no champagne or alcohol?

Makes more sense if you're flying within SA as the country is dry. I understand even overflight of other airlines used to be dry.

 

[jase05]

The point was more the airline - why would you fly a SA airline from say Australia to Europe, who charges the same as QR/EK etc yet no champagne or alcohol?

Makes more sense if you're flying within SA as the country is dry. I understand even overflight of other airlines used to be dry.

Oh, I agree with that however SV have some ridiculously cheap fares from Asia to Europe so if people are happy to save a grand or so on a dry airline then I can fully understand but yeah if prices are equal then absolutely QR/EK etc

 

[elanshin]

Oh, I agree with that however SV have some ridiculously cheap fares from Asia to Europe so if people are happy to save a grand or so on a dry airline then I can fully understand but yeah if prices are equal then absolutely QR/EK etc

I think this is also why RX is angling for alcohol. Tony Douglas knows he can't compete with QR/EK if it's a dry airline now matter how good/world leading the rest of the cabin products are and I suspect MBS knows that too.

Everything they're doing lately seems to be trying to attract more tourism in general to Saudi both western and muslim.

 

[RooFlyer]

I watched this last week. Was enough for me to put on my "do not fly" list unless for some reason I need to fly SA domestic.

Why is that (serious question)? Lack of alcohol, or that you may come across 'influencers' like them? I only fast-forwarded through it, but other than plastic 'silverware' in the lounge, didn't see too much that was offensive to comfort or safety; except for lack of alcohol.

If people can’t go without alcohol for a few days then pick somewhere else. I love my alcohol but have never had a problem going dry in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Sharjah etc. Definitely not a deal breaker for me

Agree; they come up with some really nice fruit based drinks and my colleague and I survived on 'Saudi champagne' (Perrier and mint and something else) for a couple of weeks while driving around the 'bush' (oh, and a slab of Swan Super Light we picked up in a supermarket). Of course then we visited the Aussie trade rep at his house in Riyadh and he asked 'What would you like to drink?' 'Saudi Champagne, please'. He looked hard at us. 'No, what would you like to drink? . Plenty of booze in the Kingdom, not least amongst the ruling elite; just not in public.

The point was more the airline - why would you fly a SA airline from say Australia to Europe, who charges the same as QR/EK etc yet no champagne or alcohol?

But that's the point - they don't charge the same. I've just priced SV CGK-MAD with a stopover in Jeddah in business basic (which is roughly equiv to QR business classic in term of conditions), next year and its about $4.5K; QR is about $7K. Special 'stopover visit Saudi' SV fare. But they are cheap in general. I am very willing to save even $1K or $2K to get to Europe on a dry, comfortable airline, let alone $3-$4K. To get to the starting point, I would do what I do with QR fares now; get a SQ or QF award flight to CGK or BKK and go from there.

It was more a reflection of the governments attitude towards alcohol. It’s quite different to the UAE or Qatar.

Yes, at the moment. But MBS is changing the Kingdom wholesale, but has to do it at a pace the locals can absorb. Non Muslims can now visit Madinah (except for central mosque) - unthinkable 10 years ago; there are plenty of tourist women in those videos not wearing a scarf; local women can now drive, and of course there are now tourist visas which didn't exist a decade ago.

As I noted above, it wouldn't be a big next step to have 'gated, foreigners only' tourist resorts where alcohol is served. I remember when in Salt Lake City to get booze with a meal at a restaurant, you once had to approach some dark corner or hatch and ask discretely!

Alcohol on Saudia Airways? Possibly not in foreseeable future, but what about a 'foreigners' airline in their tourist drive? They have the brass to do it and a determination to boose the tourist numbers.

 

[elanshin]

One other thing someone brought up is that because of the lack of alcohol, there are some exceptional mocktails being made and developed. Also nice to see an Aussie company (Lyre) having their non alcoholic "Gin" and "Whiskey" being used in Saudia. (My friend used to be Lyre's vice CFO a couple of years ago).

 

[justinbrett]

Why is that (serious question)? Lack of alcohol, or that you may come across 'influencers' like them? I only fast-forwarded through it, but other than plastic 'silverware' in the lounge, didn't see too much that was offensive to comfort or safety; except for lack of alcohol.

Their synopsis that it did not compete with the other gulf carriers for the price point it’s selling for, especially considering there’s no alcohol.

But that's the point - they don't charge the same. I've just priced SV CGK-MAD with a stopover in Jeddah in business basic (which is roughly equiv to QR business classic in term of conditions), next year and its about $4.5K; QR is about $7K. Special 'stopover visit Saudi' SV fare. But they are cheap in general. I am very willing to save even $1K or $2K to get to Europe on a dry, comfortable airline, let alone $3-$4K. To get to the starting point, I would do what I do with QR fares now; get a SQ or QF award flight to CGK or BKK and go from there.

Well again was taking their statement for fact, but probably more regarding fares from the US, noting they don’t fly to Australia.

You’re still paying a lot of money to fly and if you’ve got to add a second stop with a third party airline, only to go dry for the rest of the way - no, there’s better ways to save money and not compromise the experience. But you do you.

I remember when in Salt Lake City to get booze with a meal at a restaurant, you once had to approach some dark corner or hatch and ask discretely!

I was there last year. It hasn’t progressed much! You still can’t get a proper coughtails because most exceed the alcohol limits - so they have lower strength versions. No booze without food in most establishments.

Most restaurants still don’t have a visible bar, it is behind closed doors.

Hard pass.

Yes, at the moment. But MBS is changing the Kingdom wholesale, but has to do it at a pace the locals can absorb. Non Muslims can now visit Madinah (except for central mosque) - unthinkable 10 years ago; there are plenty of tourist women in those videos not wearing a scarf; local women can now drive, and of course there are now tourist visas which didn't exist a decade ago.

As I noted above, it wouldn't be a big next step to have 'gated, foreigners only' tourist resorts where alcohol is served.

Alcohol on Saudia Airways? Possibly not in foreseeable future, but what about a 'foreigners' airline in their tourist drive? They have the brass to do it and a determination to boose the tourist numbers.

Sure but the comment was on whether they’d be dry on launch - scheduled for this year. It’s looking like they will.

 

[RooFlyer]

Their synopsis that it did not compete with the other gulf carriers for the price point it’s selling for, especially considering there’s no alcohol.

Thanks; will go through it in more detail. But as you say, ex USA which would be premium priced. From the Asian Muslim countries, most ME airlines are pretty good value. The Saudis just happen to be having a big country 'promo' at the minute.

But you do you.

I don't think its just me . God knows, I enjoy a drink but thankfully I don't let it guide my travel choices and regularly go 'dry' for extended periods for health's sake. In choosing between SV and QR to get to Saudi, going SV means foregoing 'first class' on QR on the regional leg, and visit to Al Safwa both ways. THAT is factored into my decision!

Sure but the comment was on whether they’d be dry on launch - scheduled for this year. It’s looking like they will.

Ah; I was talking more generally. I haven't been following the RX thing, but it sounds hopeful.

 

[justinbrett]

Not just me, by the sound of it . God knows, I enjoy a drink but thankfully I don't let it guide my travel choices and regularly go 'dry' for extended periods for health's sake. In choosing between SV and QR to get to Saudi, going SV means foregoing 'first class' on QR on the regional leg, and visit to Al Safwa both ways. THAT is factored into my decision!

Ah but see, for me the journey is as important as the destination so I'm not going to limit my travel choices just to save a few bucks.

I've got no problem not drinking but that will be my decision, not one that's imposed on me.