Should a HECS system apply to the Australian Institute of Sport?

[Pushka]

Indeed you clearly don't know what teachers really do. Having observed both my parents working as teachers when growing up you cynicism is offensive in some ways. I know a number of teachers who do all of those things during their "holidays". Like everything we do prior preparation is required by teachers and that can't be done in the classroom.

I have to agree. Great teachers do work much longer than it appears. The trouble I think, is that there is a (most likely large) proportion of people in the profession who are not great. They are the ones beating the kids out of the gate when the bell rings. And they spoil the perception of the profession as a whole. Which is why we need to eliminate those kinds of teachers and encourage those who could be great, to enter the profession. I think everyone has hopefully been inspired by a teacher and remembers them into their adult life. I have a few in mind, but I have experienced personally, and through my now adult kids, teachers who should never have been in that profession.

 

[amaroo]

Indeed you clearly don't know what teachers really do. Having observed both my parents working as teachers when growing up you cynicism is offensive in some ways. I know a number of teachers who do all of those things during their "holidays". Like everything we do prior preparation is required by teachers and that can't be done in the classroom.

We all know teachers......no life changing experience there!

What cynicism? Suggest you go back & read my post.......rather than just jumping on the bandwagon & start throwing accusations & insults around.

But hey, go ahead & get your knickers in a knot - knock yourself out

 

[Cynicor]

I'm not going to enter the debate on pay, or HECs, but all of the teachers I know personally take at least 10 of the 14 days away on holiday, either interstate or internationally.

 

[dajop]

On the teachers thing, one downside is that all of their leave (apart from long service) - whether it is 4 weeks or 12 weeks - is during peak time for travel.

On the sport thing, sure the country likes sport, but I sometimes wonder if the value of Olympics gold really is overrated - are we that insecure that it really makes a difference whether we get 3 or 13 gold medals? Whether HECS or not is necessary is an interesting debate - but in financial terms it probably really is tinkering at the edges , given the numbers involved and the size of the federal budget, and it is worth considering that those who do go on to great success (in terms of either endorsement income or professional sport) would pay their fair share of taxes (admittedly so do many of those who have great success after university education).

 

[Pushka]

On the teachers thing, one downside is that all of their leave (apart from long service) - whether it is 4 weeks or 12 weeks - is during peak time for travel.

But it's only peak because it is when they travel!

Are the Olympics over rated? Remember the buzz when Sydney held the Olympics? That kind of National pride can't be bought. However, I think it is more that the athletes now over rate themselves, more than the Games themselves being over rated.

Sport is just one of those "things" that has the ability to raise a country's pride more than anything else I can think of. But the current batch of athletes are doing more to shame the country. Rotten apples.

 

[dajop]

Are the Olympics over rated? Remember the buzz when Sydney held the Olympics? That kind of National pride can't be bought. However, I think it is more that the athletes now over rate themselves, more than the Games themselves being over rated.

I didn't say whether the Olympics themselves were over-rated just whether or not winning lots of lots of gold medals is over-rated. Does winning 17 gold medals instil any more national pride than 17? I sensed no less national pride in 84 or 88 when we won 4 and 3 medals respectively than winning 17 in 2004 (and if truth be told I could remember all the winning medalists - and to this day still remember most of them - something that is not true of more recent games.)

 

[Pushka]

I didn't say whether the Olympics themselves were over-rated just whether or not winning lots of lots of gold medals is over-rated. Does winning 17 gold medals instil any more national pride than 17? I sensed no less national pride in 84 or 88 when we won 4 and 3 medals respectively than winning 17 in 2004 (and if truth be told I could remember all the winning medalists - and to this day still remember most of them - something that is not true of more recent games.)

Um, not sure what you mean by the 17, but yes, to most Australians I believe, it is all about the Gold, or at least achieving a PB. if the Aussies had competed this time round at close to their PB's, then the Gold would have been flowing and there would not be the scrutiny esp on the Swimmers, that there is now. Most Aussies were pretty much bored by the most recent Games and that was simply because we just didn't perform at the level they should have given previous performance.

 

[blackcat20]

Indeed you clearly don't know what teachers really do. Having observed both my parents working as teachers when growing up you cynicism is offensive in some ways. I know a number of teachers who do all of those things during their "holidays". Like everything we do prior preparation is required by teachers and that can't be done in the classroom.

It amazes me how many people still think that teachers rock up at 9am and scoot home at 3pm, and spend 12 weeks a year lounging around doing nothing. I have a few teachers in my family, and I gave it a shot too, and its a sucky profession to be in. My uncle, who will retire this year, agreed with me when I said I wasn't going to continue, and said that he wouldnt encourage anyone to take it up as a career these days.

 

[k_sheep]

They don't end up with a Uni degree though. And it's called HELP now. . But I think there should be some kind of settlement.

I've always thought that Nursing and Teaching graduates should have their HELP debt 'forgiven" after three years of employment as Nurses/teachers.

Why should they have it "forgiven", whereas say scientists, who generally earn half of what a teacher or nurse does, don't? Why not junior doctors, who have 3x the debt, and are paid worse? Why not architechs? Paramedics? Do these professions contribute any less to society?

 

[Pushka]

Why should they have it "forgiven", whereas say scientists, who generally earn half of what a teacher or nurse does, don't? Why not junior doctors, who have 3x the debt, and are paid worse? Why not architechs? Paramedics? Do these professions contribute any less to society?

No they don't contribute any less to society. But they do get amply rewarded for it financially. Teachers and Nurses have no hope in hell of reaching the salaries of doctors, architects, engineers etc. even the very best of them.

 

[amaroo]

ADFA = zero HELP fees.

We'll sponsor you to study

ADFA offers degrees in a wide range of disciplines, including Arts, Business, Engineering, Information Technology, Science and Technology. In your first year you will receive a salary package of $38,015 (excluding Superannuation) which increases with each year of study. All of your Higher Education Loan Program (HELP) fees (previously known as HECS) will be covered.

 

[Pushka]

ADFA = zero HELP fees..

That is a real HOT button for me. A relative received salary/rent assistance/Free tuition for an Honours degree from ADFA. He was supposed to serve 6 years of service, but got out after less than 12 months - because of compassionate reasons. Humph. :evil::evil: I can't see any and I know the family well. The thing is, guess what, his sister has just this month started at ADFA. My son is currently paying tens of thousands of dollars for his Masters degree. No handouts there.

 

[trooper]

I did my tertiary studies as a Midshipman in the Navy... and served my "ROSO" (Return of Service obligation) PLUS an additional 8 years.... so I feel no guilt over that at all....

AND back to the Teachers... As stated originally YES.. we understand and accept that SOME of the 12 weeks vacation time IS used for lesson prep etc... BUT I note noone has tried to argue my contention that they do NOT use enough of that time for such purposes to bring their actual vacation time back to the standard 4 weeks. Thus they DO get more time off.

Well deserved time off it's true.... but to imply they do NOT get to enjoy more vacation time than everyone else is absurd.

Fascinating too that with all this prep apparently done during school holidays we now also see "moderation days" where teachers go in but the kids don't... Didn't happen in MY day so maybe teachers used to do even MORE work during the breaks?

 

[Pushka]

I did my tertiary studies as a Midshipman in the Navy... and served my "ROSO" (Return of Service obligation) PLUS an additional 8 years.... so I feel no guilt over that at all....

Absolutely. Great service. But not all are like you.