Should Virgin Australia bring back domestic premium economy?

[Milefest]

And FWIW, the Delta domestic boarding system is, indeed a joke. They'd be better off throwing a bucket of numbered balls in the air and letting people duke it out with each other. At least it would be fun to watch..............

It really is a joke. It's inefficient and confusing. Last time I was there it was assisted boarding > veterans > first class > status pax > row 1-15 pax > row 15-beyond pax. Fragmenting the boarding process up this much also increases the time to board, I've never had a flight with delta that takes less than 45 minutes to board.

 

[grubbidok]

It really is a joke. It's inefficient and confusing. Last time I was there it was assisted boarding > veterans > first class > status pax > row 1-15 pax > row 15-beyond pax. Fragmenting the boarding process up this much also increases the time to board, I've never had a flight with delta that takes less than 45 minutes to board.

The worst part is you have to play the game - you can't even just relax and wait until the end and claim your seat because the crazy US overhead free-for-all really makes getting on first far more valuable than elsewhere.

 

[samh004]

They weren't trying to 'sell' it, it was more sounding us out on the idea and what we thought would make this work. There is an article on the Australian Business Traveller website about this which has some more details on the proposed legroom (sorry I can't post a link to ABT as I am a new member) but Virgin also asked about other ways to improve the value of this such as letting these passengers also use the business class toilets instead of going all the way to the back of the plane to queue for the economy lavs, which I thought was not a bad idea especially on longer flights such as BNE-MEL and SYD-PER.

To be honest, that actually sounds like something worthwhile, but I'd be interested to see what else would be thrown in and who might be able to select those seats for no charge or a reduced charge, eg. at least Platinum members?

 

[Jet L]

First thought no because of the most likely row 3 4 5 loss unless its something like Delta comfort+ where Platinum can select the seats for free at booking and Gold 72 hours before and Silver at check-in or something then it would be great

 

[NZflygirl]

To be honest if they did a set up like NZs I think that would be great. More leg room, less HVC racing for FF seating. And the opportunity to make a few $$ if non status PAX want to pay to be in the area on the other side. One of the things I value about NZ. Some places like ZQN you know you're going to get stairs down the back so a safe bet down the back. Need to know your routes though and timings. (Although sometimes just dead full). I'd vouch for that. I don't see the point in J short haul. Not worth the dosh IMO.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Since they would almost certainly do away with row 3 only to charge extra for it, I would be very sad.

If I want a better seat on a 737 I do a points upgrade to business. It takes hardly any points as it is and the difference is actually worth it for flights 2hrs+.

Some kind of "economy +" option would be tokenistic, not worth the price, remove row 3, and probably bump up the number of points needed for a business upgrade.

Bad idea.

Agree with your sentiments. I don't think a 3 class cabin is warranted nor sustainable on domestic AU routes on 737 routes. The only exception may be on the A330's which are primarily transcon where they could have a Y+ mini cabin behind J similar to the forward whY cabin of the ex-BA 76's or ACE a/c QF operated ZXA-ZXG where row 23 & 24 were. That would get messy with an a/c downgrade as no PE on 737's. It's bad enough trying to reaccommodate J pax when there are approx have the J seats.

It's possible that by having a PE cabin that it will reduce the number of discounted regular economy seats available for purchase.

I don't think this is a good idea at all as it will annoy everyone - J pax would see it as a downgrade if the forward loo is no longer exclusively for J, PE pax will probably expect lounge access then the average economy punter will think they're being short changed when they see the first 3 rows of PE getting food and beverages only to not get it themselves because they're unaware there are two economy products.

It's quite likely VA wouldn't sell all the seats in the PE cabin so would then face the dilemma or having to oversell Y by the amount of seats unsold in PE which would further p!ss off paying PE pax because it will be obvious Y pax have been upgraded into PE so they'll wonder why they even bothered to pay the extra for PE when they could've got it for free. Just can't see any positives here.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. VA's purse string controllers have only two choices IMHO.
1. Let JB finish what he started and do a complete, workable roll out of his "game change" (I still believe many people will pay their prices, but only if they see benefit), including a proper alliance; or
2. Merge TT and VA and roll back to a pretty bloody good LCC ... like we used to have with DJ (but please do not bring back the aisle sing-songs and giggling idiots masquerading as flight attendants).

Wonder if there's any truth to the rumour that VA don't want to hire F/A's under 30 any more?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I don't think a 3 class cabin is warranted nor sustainable on domestic AU routes on 737 routes.....

Wonder if there's any truth to the rumour that VA don't want to hire F/A's under 30 any more?

Good, well reasoned post. Perhaps they should have saved the think-tank expense and just spoken to you?

I haven't heard the rumour you mention but there are a lot of excellent FA's under 30 and similarly, a number of not-so-flash FA's over 30. Bringing in age discriminatory policies would be just stupid IMHO.

 

[Ausbt]

Wonder if there's any truth to the rumour that VA don't want to hire F/A's under 30 any more?

Positive age discrimination? Ahhh, I sort of like it But really, why? What is the logic here? My workplace is brimming with Gen Y's & Millennials. It's also common to see cut-out newpaper articles (ok, reprinted from online) on manager's desks about "What Gen-whatever really want and how to keep them happy". We don't have an HR department, we have a 'Culture' department (and yes, the manager is 24 y.o. and thinks Performance Appraisal has something to do with providing feedback to Tindr).

We have bean bags, an X-box, pool tables, ping pong. There is no room for a slide, unfortunately, but they can dream. Are they flighty? (pun!) This week I'm training a young 'un to take over a task that I've trained 3 other young 'uns to do over the past 15 months, before they flew off to other departments without cross-training their replacements. Yeah.

 

[Matt_01]

What can one say. They are so lost these days.

Someone must think JB is doing a good job. He was awarded an AO in the Australia Day Honours List for distinguished services to the Australian aviation industry

 

[Denali]

Someone must think JB is doing a good job. He was awarded an AO in the Australia Day Honours List for distinguished services to the Australian aviation industry

Maybe Alan Joyce nominated him?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Someone must think JB is doing a good job. He was awarded an AO in the Australia Day Honours List for distinguished services to the Australian aviation industry

I never suggested otherwise. I think you may find I've actually suggested that one step VA could do, is let JB finish his vision. JB's contribution to the aviation industry is unquestioned, in my mind. His success with VA however, may or may not be realised but keeping QF honest is an achievement in its own right.

 

[Moopere]

Originally, VA went for the business cabin and priced their return J flights PER-MEL (for example) at <$1000 per leg. from memory there was a relatively long period where they were around $699 per leg.

Now we have this J cabin on the 330's which is in excess of what international first used to be only a decade ago or so. Its insanely high end for transcon travel. Yes, I thoroughly enjoy it, but at circa $2000 per leg west-east coast, who is happy to pay that? The days when corporates _always_ travelled J have long since passed. Yes, sure, still a fair bit of corporate travel at the top end, but nothing like there used to be pre 2006-7. Back in the day I was only a lowly floor supervisor and used to go J everywhere, nowadays I see senior management in my old companies travelling Y along with the rest of the plebs.

I definitely believe there is a solid market segment for an offering better than standard Y, absolutely, but put product in place who's input cost can provide you a return with a moderate price point to the consumer. Like the pricing of VA's Flex tickets PER-MEL, at about $699 per leg for example. I'd take a $699/leg seat in a product reminiscent of the old EK J seating on the first two VA 330's any day of the week.

My strong suspicion is that the J cabin is primary a vehicle built for burning FF points. The FF game is undeniably profitable for those businesses who can run their schemes well. QFF proved that many many moons ago. Roughly translated from the end consumers point of view, the 40K FF points required for a transcon leg in J is about equivalent to $AU1000 of 'value' - this is mightily close to what I believe to be a real and sustainable price point for a somewhat exclusive service over and above your standard paid Y seat.

This talk of a PE cabin must, surely, be directed at a different market segment, one who is primarily going to pay cash for a seat rather than points - the classic business/corporate spend perhaps? The only reason I can think of why VA wouldn't simply cut to the chase and make a return J transcon trip close to $2000 is that there might be some unintended cannibalization of the FF burn rates or change in the perception of value by consumers as they earn and burn those points.

Where would they place a PE service anyway, price wise? With Flexi's at $699, what would PE cost? $1000? $1200?

 

[Moopere]

Positive age discrimination? Ahhh, I sort of like it But really, why? What is the logic here? My workplace is brimming with Gen Y's & Millennials. It's also common to see cut-out newpaper articles (ok, reprinted from online) on manager's desks about "What Gen-whatever really want and how to keep them happy". We don't have an HR department, we have a 'Culture' department (and yes, the manager is 24 y.o. and thinks Performance Appraisal has something to do with providing feedback to Tindr).

We have bean bags, an X-box, pool tables, ping pong. There is no room for a slide, unfortunately, but they can dream. Are they flighty? (pun!) This week I'm training a young 'un to take over a task that I've trained 3 other young 'uns to do over the past 15 months, before they flew off to other departments without cross-training their replacements. Yeah.

I've bumped into businesses like this. With 'chill-out' rooms, and big tv's and console games all the gubbins. My suspicion is that at least some of this thinking is coming out of the google method - where they provide a whole bunch of lifestyle opportunities at their big offices, including free food (sandwiches, fruit, juices and whatnot) with the idea of keeping people at work and completely breaking down the concept of work time versus personal time - removing the clock watching habits of times before, 9am start, 5pm stop type deal.

They themselves say this has been a huge success, in terms of productivity and positive business outcomes. But I'm unconvinced. If anything, I'm more likely to side with a style of thinking whereby work hours are reduced, but focus is increased. All the faffing around that goes on in modern, mostly large, corporates these days just makes me really feel for project managers. How do they maintain momentum and actually achieve anything any more? Its beyond me.