Signature points now capped at $20K per "Statement", 1½ PP$ International

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I have a signature rewards with direct Qantas sweep (annual fee) and have received no notification either. Live in the forlorn hope that this combination isn't affected.:confused:

You are affected as well. Check the link to Citi web site on page 1 of this thread.
 
I have a signature rewards with direct Qantas sweep (annual fee) and have received no notification either. Live in the forlorn hope that this combination isn't affected.:confused:

It's upto $20K so 30K points for Signature.

The Qantas product doesn't have any bonus international points anyway and has inferior point capping

"Earn 1 Qantas point per $1 spent on eligible domestic purchases up to $3000 per statement period, and then 0.5 Qantas points per $1 spent up to $10,000 per statement period"
1pt per dollar international
 
It's upto $20K so 30K points for Signature.

The Qantas product doesn't have any bonus international points anyway and has inferior point capping

"Earn 1 Qantas point per $1 spent on eligible domestic purchases up to $3000 per statement period, and then 0.5 Qantas points per $1 spent up to $10,000 per statement period"
1pt per dollar international

Well looks like this card has come to the end of its useful life. Time to call Citibank and try and negotiate some compensation or they'll lose my six figure p.a. spend with them. I see new applicants get 50000 QF bonus, that might make me stay, or maybe the Prestige ( which still quotes 1-1 for QF on their website) at the $299 Signature annual fee? Got until March before I pull the trigger.
 
Well looks like this card has come to the end of its useful life. Time to call Citibank and try and negotiate some compensation or they'll lose my six figure p.a. spend with them. I see new applicants get 50000 QF bonus, that might make me stay, or maybe the Prestige ( which still quotes 1-1 for QF on their website) at the $299 Signature annual fee? Got until March before I pull the trigger.

Kelvedon - if you're spending 100K plus per annum then arguable you already should've been on Prestige as the value of an extra 33K points per annum (based purely on domestic spend) would be worth more than the $401 anual fee difference before even factoring in the free limo tips, free hotel night, fourth night free in hotels etc. So may be a good time to take stock and see what options are available. Not to mentioned the lower redemption rates and higher availability on many non QF airlines...
 
Well looks like this card has come to the end of its useful life.

Or it could be every credit card is coming to end of life for FF points. RBA is cutting interchange fee in this country drastically. All banks are losing lots of money, so it is highly likely that other banks will follow.
 
Or it could be every credit card is coming to end of life for FF points. RBA is cutting interchange fee in this country drastically. All banks are losing lots of money, so it is highly likely that other banks will follow.

amex issued amex cards will continue as they are exempted from the changes as I understand it. But whether they will reduce earn because they don't need to compete or whether they will use this to their advantage is to be seen.
 
amex issued amex cards will continue as they are exempted from the changes as I understand it. But whether they will reduce earn because they don't need to compete or whether they will use this to their advantage is to be seen.

Yes, this and Diners would be the only exceptions. Even AmEx branded by banks will be controlled.

People need to be careful that they don't hit the panic button, and end up in a worse position.
 
Anyone know Which cards still give points for BPay? Was relying on the signature for this....
 
Even AmEx branded by banks will be controlled.

Yes, it is looking that way:

Amex points at risk as RBA hints at regulation

People need to be careful that they don't hit the panic button, and end up in a worse position.

I agree. It may take 6 months or so for all the card issuers to adjust their points earning rates. There have always been bonus points available for taking up a new credit card & the competition will probably become quite intense over the coming months.
 
I'd love to run a card loyalty program. I would gamify the **** out of it.

EG:
Let me automatically apply 1% to any transaction and receive double points
Spend $xx_ in 5 countries each year and receive xx_
Receive trailing commission on member get member referrals
Auto approve customers for new credit products if they opt in
Gamify spending on debit products

And a billion other things that are now coming to mind...

I seriously don't understand why the small minded people at banks think that cutting rewards is the answer to sustaining/increasing profitability. It's a cheap way out of a problem that has more profitable solutions when a little work is put into dreaming up how to fix it.

For example - Banks make a ****load of cash off card customers through data. Do know banks sell your (sometimes anonymzied) data for profit, and you pay for the privilege? There was a banking start-up some years ago that tried to give this a whirl.. Raised ~$15M, got hacked and lost consumer trust. There's a heap of innovative people out there I only wish corporates would tap into this resource. They clearly need it.

Rewarding consumers through points is a wave that has come and is now plateauing. Time for the next big thing.

I have to jump in on this.

As much as you would like to think that banks make a squilliion dollars out of you with your points earning card, I can assure you that from a product perspective in Australia they do not. The deals the banks have with Amex have very little in it for the banks except for the revolve on the balance if you choose to and a share of the annual fee (which is usually waived). Amex issue the card and pay QF for the points. The bank provides the credit. Qantas have a virtual monopoly on the rewards space.

If you're spending big on your Qantas points earning bank issued card and paying your bill every month then you're breaking even for the bank at best. Theres just not much in it any more hence the lack of any new entrants to the market and the struggle that Apple pay is having with the banks and entering the market.

With your Visa/Mastercard Qantas charge the banks based on card spend. At the moment that number is 1% for 1 point and heading North. Qantas then pay the points to the bank.

Yes, Qantas take 1% of your card spend for 1 point.

Qantas know exactly what they are doing with this market and are manipulating it perfectly however they may have played it too hard now that the RBA has clamped down on interchange now.

As you all know, Interchange revenue is going South quickly. The RBA want wholesale average weighted interchange to be 0.30% with a view to getting to zero for scheme and Amex issued bank cards. The number today is supposed to be 0.50% however its around 0.63% in reality. The RBA has been very patient over the last 10 years or more but that patience is running out

The other problem for banks with big spenders such as yourselves is that you don't revolve a balance at 20% plus. The bank has to allocate the capital for your limit which you don't use and that costs them money as they can't lend that to anyone else and they are giving it to you instead - for free.

As much as we all think that we are valuable customers, in this market unless you're revolving your balance and utilising most of your limit (70% at least), spending overseas a lot (International interchange is around 2%) and generally not paying your bill on time and paying your annual fee, making ATM withdrawals and cash advances your value to the bank is marginal if you're after qantas points.

With that environment the banks are left with 2 choices now.

1) Increase ancillary fees (annual fees, FX fee, late fee, revolve %) - Citibank have done this. 3.4% FX is highway robbery IMHO
2) Decrease costs of which the main one is QFF points - hence the points capping and reductions

As we head towards a lower and possibly zero interchange environment, Amex (non bank) cards and Diners Club will be the only option for QFF points.

This reality is very close.

I know that there will be many among you who will not accept my post which is your prerogative, however when you break down the numbers, QFF cards are not a the money making machine that you think. Put simply;

Spend $100 at a Merchant

Interchanged earned $1.30 (Visa Rewards Rate - Black card)

QFF points paid away $1.00 (1 QFF point per dollar)
Transaction costs $0.10

This leaves us with $0.20 to play with. We have to run a business with this.
 
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This leaves us with $0.20 to play with. We have to run a business with this.

What a terrible business. Only 20 cents profit per transaction on the 200 million domestic transactions this year. I feel for you.

(noting the 0.20 is much higher once factoring in annual fees, fx, merchant charges, $B's in interest bearing balances, rounding down of points, breakage (non-QFF), other revenue attributable to transactions by third parties, and an average transaction size closer to $130 - which when combined bring the overall revenue up significantly.)

Agree that bank customers who want Qantas points may not be the most desired, but, hang on... if QFF generates most of it's revenue from banks.... Who really holds the cards here?
 
What a terrible business. Only 20 cents profit per transaction on the 200 million domestic transactions this year. I feel for you.

(noting the rpt is much higher once factoring in annual fees, fx, merchant charges, $B's in interest bearing balances, rounding down of points, breakage (non-QFF), other revenue attributable to transactions by third parties, and an average transaction size closer to $130 - which when combined bring the overall revenue up significantly.)

Agree that bank customers who want Qantas points may not be the most desired, but, hang on... if QFF generates most of it's revenue from banks.... Who really holds the cards here?

Keep in mind my example is one $100 transaction with an interchange at 1.3%. If you're a product manager running an entire credit card book with a wholesale weighted average interchange of 0.30% you can see that unless you have your card mix and spend patterns right across the entire book then you can easily fall down a rabbit hole. This is why the RBA wants zero interchange. Its reasoning is that people without rewards cards pay for those who do by funding higher merchant fees through interchange which favours rewards cards.

In my example that $0.20 has to go a long way. Bad debts, overheads, marketing, technology, compliance, chargebacks. From personal experience I can assure you that its a marginal business and Qantas is the only winner.

As I said, disagree if you want to but if there was a way to do it better it would have been done. Im sure there will be a lot of people who will think that they have the silver bullet but there isn't one. Downward pressure on interchange revenue and upward pressure on costs (QFF points) equals reduced benefits and/or higher fees. The resulting zero interchange will signal the end of bank issued card rewards programs - or at least ones with a benefit that outweigh the fees. Amex and Diners are the winners.

Who's holding the cards? Of course its Qantas. Its also why they turned all but the Amex Plat charge card into direct earning cards years ago to reduce the liability, increase the cost and control the market.

I can see banks walking away from points earn on most Visa/MC products save for perhaps Super Premium cards (Black/Infinite etc) with an earn rate around 0.5 points per $1 and their Amex cards may also go this way as well if the RBA gets its way.
 
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I can see banks walking away from points earn on most Visa/MC products save for perhaps Super Premium cards (Black/Infinite etc) with an earn rate around 0.5 points per $1 and their Amex cards may also go this way as well if the RBA gets its way.

Time to innovative!
 
Time to innovative!

There are some novel suggestions flying around in card land.

The Diners Club/Mastercard combo is a bit of a sleeper and quite a good product but the citibank back end and service is notoriously poor and DC acceptance is limited

AMEX (Non- Bank) cards won't be affected by the RBA so expect AMEX to be all over this like a cheap suit. Maybe stick with that free AMEX Qantas card with the 1:1 points earn as a cheap no frills option and give up on points from Visa and MasterCard? I would expect an AMEX with a 1.5:1 Card at some point again too if the banks get hobbled by the RBA as expected.

The next year or so will be very interesting in this space as far as who has an appetite to continue or not and whats left. Qantas may have to drop its price charged to banks for points given that this is their biggest money earner and needs to be protected.

Personally, Ive given up playing this cards game. My spend isn't there any more and my loyalty to Qantas has evaporated. Ive got a no frills Visa Platinum and a Citi transaction account with no foreign fees. This combination saves me around $1-1.5k per year in fees and charges.
 
Thanks for sharing an industry insiders insight with us Nutcase. Makes for very sobering reading. If Amex and Diners are the last men standing as you suggest short of them cutting rewards because the competition is decimated, we should be able to continue our game - albeit less easily and lucratively. Possibly some of Amex's recent hard won increased merchant acceptance will recede if MC & Visa cost effectively nothing to accept (I'm sure these savings to merchants will be "passed on" to consumers as the RBA intends ... When hell freezes over ... But I'm guessing that's irrelevant).
 
This is why the RBA wants zero interchange. Its reasoning is that people without rewards cards pay for those who do by funding higher merchant fees through interchange which favours rewards cards.

They said they wanted to drive efficiency in the payment system, when schemes were costing around 2% while EFTPOS was only 10c back then. This is the reason why they lifted the ban on surcharge, to send pricing signal to the market and move the market to more efficient payment system, which they have succeeded to a small degree e.g. many merchants surcharge when you press CR button but no surcharge when you press SAV or CHQ on the terminal.

Time to innovative!

How? When the RBA is forcing your profit from 2.x % to 0.5% by regulation, your hands are tied.

AMEX (Non- Bank) cards won't be affected by the RBA so expect AMEX to be all over this like a cheap suit.

The problem with this, I suspect in the very near future, is that AmEx cannot continue to charge 2% MSF when scheme credit cards are forced down to 0.5%. No merchant is going to put up with this. AmEx holders (me) would either get kick out of the store, or forced to pay a surcharge to cover the points we want.

Back to square one.
 
On the subject of innovation. Eftpos has become largely irrelevant and hasn't been able to afford to keep up with the card schemes technology (contactless, chip, not to mention ability to use it online). Even if it implements chip and contactless, it's now well and truly on the backfoot and won't be able to recover lost market share. I imagine part of the reason the banks have been loathe to invest in it is that it doesn't make any money (I'm assuming a flat fee for processing eftpos transactions, particularly after network running costs are paid for doesn't leave much for the banks) whereas the international card schemes and AMEX have the resources to innovate.

It's one thing wanting near zero cost of handling payments but someone has to pay for maintaining and developing the system. Banks aren't charities, they're not going to do it for free.
 
On the subject of innovation. Eftpos has become largely irrelevant and hasn't been able to afford to keep up with the card schemes technology (contactless, chip, not to mention ability to use it online).

The reason that EFTPOS is cheap, is EFTPOS is between banks, no scheme, and because it is online PIN verification, charge back rate is a lot lower than schemes. Hence it is cheap. Contactless increases the risk of fraud, increases charge back. See Fraud Statistics 2015 Financial Year

It does seem like they are trying to do something similar eftpos partners with Bell ID to build new Australian mobile payments capability

PayPal is joining in as well PayPal joins eftpos and plans to connect to the Hub in 2016

For the record, EFTPOS already started rolling out chip EFTPOS eftpos chip rollout November 2014. I got a new EFTPOS card issued by Cuscal with the new EFTPOS chip, and withdrawing cash from Woolworths terminals is really really fast (compared to Citi or Suncorp cards)
 
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