State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[blackcat20]

NSW Premier hinting about Vic/NSW border announcement on Wednesday potentially......regional Vic, Melbourne??? Hope its not a massive disappointment.

Given Metro opens up to regional next week, hopefully both.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If thats the case, perhaps they should rename themselves CCO if their prime motive is not balancing the overall health of the populace and stand aside for someone who is.

i don't know about other states, but Victoria has a range of health issues falling under covid, including increases mental health services. But those aren't related to border closures (or in Victoria's case, the division between regional and metro). It's possible for the QLD health officer to close the borders based on the spread of the pandemic, and also have mental health programs in place for those living in the state that need them.

I think it would be unreasonable for the QLD health officer to take into account a Victorian's economic needs in deciding whether to close the border.

 

[drron]

It's not just mental health but other medical problems including but not limited too Cancer,Heart disease and missing non urgent surgery.As far as I know no one is really collecting the data.
I know I am not allowed to put on a deathe certificate that a contributing cause to a cancer death is late diagnosis due to Covid epidemic.

 

[jakeseven7]

Chaos predicted as Queensland opens borders to all of NSW except Greater Sydney, NSW Premier again calls for all border restrictions to be dropped


Premier Gladys Berejiklian has piled the blame around the confusion of the latest Queensland border decision squarely at the feet of her interstate counterpart, flagging potential 'chaos' at the boder due to the Queensland Premier's decision to keep the border closed to Sydney residents.

During Monday's press conference, Ms Berejiklian was asked how opening the border to some NSW residents but not others was going to work logistically.

"That's really not our problem to be frank. When you are not briefed you don't know. That's for the Queensland government to determine and that's the chaos they are creating," the premier said.

"I want to reduce the stress on citizens generally and I think the best way to reduce the stress, to be compassionate, is to get rid of that Queensland/NSW border completely. There's no reason it should still be there."

Ms Berejiklian noted that NSW has repeatedly proved its ability to get on top of outbreaks, adding she was confident in the state's contact tracing system.

"We can't pretend we are going to have zero cases, or one case, or two cases," she said.

"During a pandemic, especially coming into the summer months when people are gathering all the time, we have to assume there are going to be outbreaks."

It comes as Ms Berejiklian revealed she sent a message about the border closure to Annastacia Palaszczuk after her election win.

"I sent her a congratulatory message acknowledging her election win and fighting a campaign in a pandemic, but I also highlighted that I was keen to speak to her on the border issue and I hope she takes up that opportunity," she said.

"I know from the overall trend and from what NSW has been able to demonstrate that there isn't a single place in Australia where NSW residents, all of us, should not be welcome. That's my message to the Qld premier very strongly, that's my message to the WA premier."

In terms of opening the border up to Victoria, Ms Berejiklian said the government would "move forward with confidence and great speed".

Coronavirus Australia live: Victoria, NSW, QLD COVID-19 updates

The NSW government has decided to implement a new COVID safety rule after encountering situations where venues were flouting the current restrictions.

www.news.com.au

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It's not just mental health but other medical problems including but not limited too Cancer,Heart disease and missing non urgent surgery.As far as I know no one is really collecting the data.
I know I am not allowed to put on a deathe certificate that a contributing cause to a cancer death is late diagnosis due to Covid epidemic.

Ok, so how does the border closure affect that? Is this mainly those in border towns who may cross to their doctor in another state? And if that is the case, why weren't their regular GPs directing patients to other GPs within their state? Why wasn't there some sort of patient 'exchange' set up?

If this is an issue at a state and national level, it must also be an issue for Aussies stranded overseas?

 

[jakeseven7]

Hopefully some good news on the way for NSW / VIC residents.....?

Maybe I was wrong, I thought NT or Tassie would get in first!

----

NSW Premier hints Victoria border could open soon, announcement likely this week

The NSW Premier has hinted a major announcement about the border with Victoria could be coming this week.

Asked if NSW residents can expect news on the border issue this week, Gladys Berejiklian responded: “Potentially, yes.”

The Premier said her government had “good discussions” about how quickly the state could move quickly to open the VIC border and hinted there might be an announcement on Wednesday, due to Victoria succesfully supressing the virus.

“The NSW government will move forward with confidence and speed,” Ms Berejiklian told reporters on Monday.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if we moved quicker with Victoria than Queensland did with us.”

Gladys’s big news on Victoria border

The NSW Premier has said an announcement on the state’s border with Victoria could be coming this week.

www.news.com.au

 

[BNEFlyer]

Premier Gladys Berejiklian has piled the blame around the confusion of the latest Queensland border decision squarely at the feet of her interstate counterpart, flagging potential 'chaos' at the boder due to the Queensland Premier's decision to keep the border closed to Sydney residents.

During Monday's press conference, Ms Berejiklian was asked how opening the border to some NSW residents but not others was going to work logistically.

"That's really not our problem to be frank. When you are not briefed you don't know. That's for the Queensland government to determine and that's the chaos they are creating," the premier said.

There's been a border bubble for weeks now, so eased restrictions are basically just expanding the bubble, I'm not sure what chaos and confusion Gladys thinks has been created? Yes it'll be busy, just as it was when the bubble was created and then expanded but that's to be expected.

And the QLD Govt is very clear as to which LGA's are excluded, the only confusion would occur when people from those LGA's either choose to ignore the rules or don't know where they live and they try to get into QLD.

 

[DC3]

There's been a border bubble for weeks now, so eased restrictions are basically just expanding the bubble, I'm not sure what chaos and confusion Gladys thinks has been created? Yes it'll be busy, just as it was when the bubble was created and then expanded but that's to be expected.

And the QLD Govt is very clear as to which LGA's are excluded, the only confusion would occur when people from those LGA's either choose to ignore the rules or don't know where they live and they try to get into QLD.

Yes. Those people doing the wrong thing screwed it up for everyone.

 

[jb747]

NSW Premier hinting about Vic/NSW border announcement on Wednesday potentially......regional Vic, Melbourne??? Hope its not a massive disappointment.

Well, it will be a toss up between adding Omeo to the bubble, or closing the bubble entirely. We’re so used to bad news that we simply expect more beatings each morning.

Ok, so how does the border closure affect that? Is this mainly those in border towns who may cross to their doctor in another state? And if that is the case, why weren't their regular GPs directing patients to other GPs within their state? Why wasn't there some sort of patient 'exchange' set up?

If you look at Albury and Wodonga, the NSW and Victorian health departments, quite logically established different medical services on each side, so that they were not being duplicated. For instance, all cancer services are in Albury. The border closure smashed that, with no thought given to the issues. As best I can tell, the only reason a bubble was ever established was because they belatedly realised that whilst they might have hospitals in Albury, a large proportion of the staff lived south of the river.

 

[gwilli1]

I expect Gladys to announce that NSW Borders will open to All VIC probably late November , which will be roughly 2 weeks after VIC Regional & Metro come back together as 1 state, pending that announcement on NOV 8. She will want to shove it right up Annastacia Palaszczuk and Mark McGowan

 

[james4321]

She will want to shove it right up Annastacia Palaszczuk and Mark McGowan

She needs to be careful. Karma is a cough

 

[DC3]

She needs to be careful. Karma is a *****

Poor Glad. Carrying the weight of the world lately. While I do not agree with much of the NSW stand, I think that she has been hard done by. This is not intended as a political statement, as I have empathy here.

 

[jakeseven7]

I suspect NT will be first. In fact as of today they are open to regional VIC - no other state or territory has done this. I’m guessing it’s only a matter of time before MEL is added.

So rumours today is that NSW will be announcing VIC border reopening date later this week and some people are throwing around Nov 22...

In which case NSW would pull ahead of Tas (Dec 1).

 

[drron]

I can't help thinking that the authors of this piece in the BMJ had politicians of all sides in mind.
The more certain someone is about covid-19, the less you should trust them

Covid-19’s known unknowns

The more certain someone is about covid-19, the less you should trust them In 2019, the medical historian Mark Honigsbaum concluded his book The Pandemic Century by saying: “The only thing that is certain is that there will be new plagues and new pandemics. It is not a question of if, but...

www.bmj.com

 

[JohnM]

I can't help thinking that the authors of this piece in the BMJ had politicians of all sides in mind.
The more certain someone is about covid-19, the less you should trust them

Covid-19’s known unknowns

The more certain someone is about covid-19, the less you should trust them In 2019, the medical historian Mark Honigsbaum concluded his book The Pandemic Century by saying: “The only thing that is certain is that there will be new plagues and new pandemics. It is not a question of if, but...

www.bmj.com

A very good piece.

The "Approximately 510,000 deaths" phrase, right from the outset was always the giveaway that those people and their modelling were pretending to know more than they did. They should have known the difference between precision and accuracy, and something about stochastic processes, but failed miserably.

Along related lines: Science Fictions by Stuart Ritchie

Of course, the media always plays to the lowest common denominator - or below... and infuse everything with emotionalism, uncritically grabbing any self-proclaimed 'expert' and over-simplifying the message.

Real science just can't cut through the garbage - and it's getting worse, not better, throughout science.

Now, while I'm on the case, just what did happen to all those Australian 'breakthroughs' that were going to miraculously save us - and the dumb rest of the world - from this thing?

 

[Anna]

The High Court will hear the argument today.

I am not expecting a rapid decision, but it's the High Court so who knows. I would say probably March 2021 at the earliest. Both Nettle and Bell JJ will have to write their bits before they retire. Perhaps they will go for the time-honoured 'I agree'.

Gageler J will be the one to watch, if looking for new and original views on the Constitution.

 

[jakeseven7]

QLD opens to Regional NSW, faces mounting pressure to remove borders to Sydney and VIC

Long delays are expected at checkpoints into Queensland today as the states border ease to NSW.

Residents from regional New South Wales are now allowed in to the Sunshine State after months of controversial closures.

The border ban ended at 1am today but Queensland still remains shut off to residents in Greater Sydney and Victoria.

The situation around the country is very different from when the Queensland election was called and continues to improve daily.

The rate of community infections in NSW and Victoria is now so low and contract tracing is well organised that even the most cautious public health experts should soon feel confident about reopening.

Victoria has not recorded a case of community transmission in almost a week and NSW only six cases in the last month.

It is extremely unlikely that a case will slip across the border into Queensland and, if it does, Queenslanders should be confident that its contact tracing regime, recently stress-tested by national Chief Scientist Alan Finkel, has the capacity to control it.

Finkel has also reviewed and tested both NSW and Victoria’s contact tracing systems and protocols, expressing that Victoria’s is now probably best in Australia, which is welcome news following the hotel quarantine outbreak that sparked the second wave in the state.

Coronavirus Australia live: Victoria, NSW, QLD COVID-19 updates

The NSW government has decided to implement a new COVID safety rule after encountering situations where venues were flouting the current restrictions.

www.news.com.au

 

[Gremlin]

Sounds like Palmer's hearing isn't going particularly well for him this morning...

 

[jakeseven7]

Looks like SA might get pole position after all with VIC!

But the planned opening in 2 weeks still has self isolation strings attached (although you can do it at your choice of location) so the first ‘true’ VIC border opening is still firming to be TAS (Dec 1) or the NT with a possible dark horse announcement expected from NSW later this week...

—-

South Australia looks to lift coronavirus border restrictions with Victoria within 2 weeks

South Australia's Premier says he hopes the border ban with Victoria can be lifted within a fortnight.

Currently, only essential travellers, people permanently relocating, or school and university students returning home for summer holidays are allowed to enter South Australia.

Premier Steven Marshall said the SA Government would monitor conditions in Victoria with a view to opening up the border within two weeks.

Anyone travelling from Victoria would still have to self-isolate for a fortnight on arrival but could do it at home or a location of their choice.

"We should be in a position in around about two weeks' time to lift that so that people can come back in [and] do that 14 days' isolation," Mr Marshall said.

The last community transmission case in Victoria was four days ago and the state has had no mystery cases for 10 days.

From midnight tonight, South Australia is also removing the requirement of weekly coronavirus tests for people living in cross-border communities within 70 kilometres of the border.

SA looks to lift border ban on non-essential Victorian travellers within a fortnight

South Australia's Premier says he hopes the border ban with Victoria can be lifted within two weeks, along with the current restriction on people standing and drinking in licensed venues.

www.abc.net.au

 

[dajop]

"We should be in a position in around about two weeks' time to lift that so that people can come back in [and] do that 14 days' isolation," Mr Marshall said.

I can't help but think if it was Qld that offered this up, there'd be a lot of commentary from certain media outlets (and federal treasurers and the like) imploring they open up properly sooner.