State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[jakeseven7]

I suspect it's deliberate, to stop people getting complacent about eliminating the virus.

I’m sorry who has eliminated the virus? Oh that’s right - no one.

 

[bigbadbyrnes]

WA in 'advanced stages' of discussions to reopen border, announcement expected in coming weeks

The WA Government concedes the community wants more clarity about the future of the state's border closure, with authorities now in "advanced discussions" and preparing to make an announcement in coming weeks.

www.abc.net.au

WA give the first official sign they're seriously looking at setting a date.

It's become farcical all this. I'd still love to see the limits of state power tested in the High Court, but the absurdity of the situation mustn't be lost on anyone.

 

[CityRail]

Breaking News: NT to reopen its internal borders on 17th July

NT announces border re-open date

The Northern Territory will re-open its borders to domestic travel on 17 July
Michael Gunner says it has been 28 days since the last person with covid recovered from the virus.
He is declaring the NT covid free.
And so, come mid next month, it will re-open its borders to domestic travel

Source: The Guardian

 

[flydoc]

NT borders to open for unrestricted travel from July 17

NT's borders to open on July 17, Chief Minister says

The Northern Territory will soon be open to interstate visitors, with Chief Minister Michael Gunner confirming quarantine will no longer be mandatory from July 17. The change matches a similar move by South Australia.

www.abc.net.au

Snap, CityRail!

The local head of the AMA is unhappy though, citing the risk to vulnerable Aboriginal communities. However a contextual biosecurity approach should be able to mitigate that.

 

[drron]

NT borders to open for unrestricted travel from July 17

NT's borders to open on July 17, Chief Minister says

The Northern Territory will soon be open to interstate visitors, with Chief Minister Michael Gunner confirming quarantine will no longer be mandatory from July 17. The change matches a similar move by South Australia.

www.abc.net.au

Snap, CityRail!

The local head of the AMA is unhappy though, citing the risk to vulnerable Aboriginal communities. However a contextual biosecurity approach should be able to mitigate that.

But the NT had lifted the restrictions to enter remote communities under the biosecurity act on June 5th.A little late in complaining.

Travel to and from the NT

Current restrictions in place for travel to and from the Northern Territory.

coronavirus.nt.gov.au

 

[jakeseven7]

Breaking News: NT to reopen its internal borders on 17th July

Michael Gunner says it has been 28 days since the last person with covid recovered from the virus.
He is declaring the NT covid free.

Source: The Guardian

Its 'clinically' covid free yes.

Covid free? Probably not. Just to be clear so people don't shriek in horror and call for borders to close again when tomorrow a case pops up.

 

[jakeseven7]

So in summary is this correct? Its so bloody confusing thanks to the 2-bit premiers!

VIC: open
NSW: open
ACT: open
QLD: July 10 - all
NT: July 17 - all
TAS: July 20 - all*
SA: July 20 - all (tried to go earlier with some other select states, but no one cares)
WA: still trying to work their lives out...

*heavily hinted - announcement shortly

EDIT: Sorry ACT people thanks for the messages! Included now.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So in summary is this correct? Its so bloody confusing thanks to the 2-bit premiers!

VIC: open
NSW: open
QLD: July 10 - all
TAS: July 20 - all
SA: July 20 - all (tried to go earlier with some other select states, but no one cares)
NT: July 17 - all
WA: still trying to work their lives out...

I don’t see how it’s confusing? Pick the state you are in. Pick the state you wish to visit.

If you are in NT wanting to travel to QLD, what’s happening in WA is not relevant.

 

[PineappleSkip]

I don’t think bets are off yet. I suspect states will be watching Victoria closely before pressing the go button, with the number of community transmission cases there over the past couple of days..

Queensland have been up hill and down dale, and haven’t confirmed July 10, although it looks likely - but not odds on. FFS we can’t have too much certainty. I suspect travellers from the Queensland declared hotspots in Victoria, which multiplied considerably a few days ago, may still be out of bounds.

Interesting the comment in the hotspot declaration about MEL not being a hotspot, although Hume City is, and I’m not sure where that leaves the hotels at MEL

cheers skip

 

[MelMel]

All well and good to declare hotspots but they need to be updated regularly. At least two of the LGA listed have no active cases according to dhhs listing today.

 

[Steady]

So in summary is this correct? Its so bloody confusing thanks to the 2-bit premiers!

VIC: open
NSW: open
QLD: July 10 - all
TAS: July 20 - all
SA: July 20 - all (tried to go earlier with some other select states, but no one cares)
NT: July 17 - all
WA: still trying to work their lives out...

I have not seen anything stating Tas boarders were opening 20 July?

 

[PineappleSkip]

Not sure about Tas but still a lot of Queensland boarders are shut out

 

[jakeseven7]

I don’t think bets are off yet. I suspect states will be watching Victoria closely before pressing the go button, with the number of community transmission cases there over the past couple of days..

Queensland have been up hill and down dale, and haven’t confirmed July 10, although it looks likely - but not odds on. FFS we can’t have too much certainty. I suspect travellers from the Queensland declared hotspots in Victoria, which multiplied considerably a few days ago, may still be out of bounds.

Interesting the comment in the hotspot declaration about MEL not being a hotspot, although Hume City is, and I’m not sure where that leaves the hotels at MEL

cheers skip

Victoria should not be 'penalized' for having the strongest testing regime and also arguably the best contact tracers as well whilst we (QLD) sit around with our fingers crossed that our tourism industry magically self animates without tourists.

Meanwhile the Gold Coast is trying to secede and become a part of NSW - they are fighting and clawing at our State Gov to open!

 

[VPS]

So in summary is this correct? Its so bloody confusing thanks to the 2-bit premiers!

VIC: open
NSW: open
ACT: open
QLD: July 10 - all
NT: July 17 - all
TAS: July 20 - all*
SA: July 20 - all (tried to go earlier with some other select states, but no one cares)
WA: still trying to work their lives out...

*heavily hinted - announcement shortly

EDIT: Sorry ACT people thanks for the messages! Included now.

Isn't SA open to Vic only on the premise there are no more community infected cases?

 

[Pushka]

Victoria should not be 'penalized' for having the strongest testing regime and also arguably the best contact tracers as well whilst we (QLD) sit around with our fingers crossed that our tourism industry magically self animates without tourists.

Meanwhile the Gold Coast is trying to secede and become a part of NSW - they are fighting and clawing at our State Gov to open!

But there is community spread albeit tiny. I think we've lost context along the way. If in late March we thought we'd be right where we are then we would think about buying a lottery ticket. I despair for the young folk in this sorry catastrophe. That saddens me immensely.

 

[jakeseven7]

But there is community spread albeit tiny. I think we've lost context along the way. If in late March we thought we'd be right where we are then we would think about buying a lottery ticket. I despair for the young folk in this sorry catastrophe. That saddens me immensely.

There is community spread in all states - almost guaranteed, some are just not testing enough to pick it up. People just don't seem to get this.

 

[bigbadbyrnes]

This is what some are characterising as an 'outbreak' or 'spike'

 

[Pushka]

There is community spread in all states - almost guaranteed, some are just not testing enough to pick it up. People just don't seem to get this.

The rate of testing hasn't slowed off that much in SA. However it will be interesting to see if an antibody test flushes out much more incidence than expected. The SA CMO basically said the only way it's likely to get another case in SA is an import.

If we do have community spread then that too would be a great thing as clearly we are coping with it health wise, very well.

 

[drron]

Well maybe a bit of a peek at what the Premier of WA has had in mind.Notified that out hotel in Perth won't be open in August.First able to book in October.

 

[Gremlin]

There is community spread in all states - almost guaranteed, some are just not testing enough to pick it up. People just don't seem to get this.

You've made variations on this comment several times already. Let's have a fact check.

So in the past two weeks, NSW have undertaken over 127,800 tests and found 4 positives in the community.
In the same time period Qld have undertaken ~56,000 tests and found no positives in the community. That's despite having more than 2,800 people currently in self-isolation in the community.
SA - 25,000 tests and no positives in the community.
WA - 29,000 tests and no positives in the community.
Tas - 7,000 tests and no positives in the community.

People have been asked to present for testing when showing any sign of symptom. Those sorts of numbers suggest lots are doing that. Unlike many other nations, we're not turning people away from being tested. And yet there's still no community cases turning up in most states. Not from those voluntarily turning up to testing centres. Not from those in mandatory self-iso. Nowhere. The odds of doing that many tests from people self-selecting that they may have the virus and not finding any sign of it whatsoever is astronomical. Unless community transmission is not happening to any material degree right now.

So either our test, trace and isolate regime is proving itself to be robust. I'd suggest that's true. Or it's so unbelievably bad that we're missing almost all of the community spread that's occurring in almost every state and territory. With the numbers of tests as they are, that doesn't sound too plausible to me.

Yes, there's going to be outbreaks going forward and almost certainly in each state. Yes, they'll need to be dealt with. But right now, Vic is the only state with a community transmission problem.