State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[serfty]

A certain QLD Premier certainly gave that as an impression that someone has incorrectly run with.
The important thing is that it’s all been fixed and can never happen again. (Sorry I am hallucinating again)
People need to learn to say what they mean and to mean what they say.

Agreed - Palaszczuk earlier this month said "People living in NSW, they have NSW hospitals. In Queensland we have Queensland hospitals for our people. ".

She did not say "People living in NSW, they have NSW hospitals. In Queensland we have Queensland hospitals for our people (unless in an emergency)".

 

[james4321]

There's the thing. You have a WA Premier not allowing their state to open up until April next year.

I think comments of personal good dont rub that well when as a company we have contributed hundreds of thousands of company tax back into the Australian economy plus employed multiple people over the time who also paid salary taxes. This isnt personal, this is how the Country finances its social service contributions. So if there are multiple companies like us, and we know there are thousands, that will most certainly not benefit the community generally, quite the opposite.

Its not personal. I am in the same position as you - my company is not able to operate at the moment - so I have a vested interest as well. And I and my company have likewise paid lots of tax (whatever the relevance of that is) But I acknowledge that the current policies are a means to an end, and I am OK with that, I find it disappointing that others feel differently but thats their choice and I respect their right to exercise it, even though I disagree with it. And thats my right.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Agreed - Palaszczuk earlier this month said "People living in NSW, they have NSW hospitals. In Queensland we have Queensland hospitals for our people. ".

She did not say "People living in NSW, they have NSW hospitals. In Queensland we have Queensland hospitals for our people (unless in an emergency)".

That’s got nothing to do with this case or in the case of emergencies.

 

[Steady]

That’s got nothing to do with this case or in the case of emergencies.

Nah, obviously it’s Scomos fault, like anything and everything else

 

[TheRealTMA]

Nah, obviously it’s Scomos fault, like anything and everything else

That maybe your opinion, so who am I to argue .

 

[Steady]

That maybe your opinion, so who am I to argue .

Not my opinion, I think he is doing ok, just trying to understand your posts

 

[Pushka]

Its not personal. I am in the same position as you - my company is not able to operate at the moment - so I have a vested interest as well. And I and my company have likewise paid lots of tax (whatever the relevance of that is) But I acknowledge that the current policies are a means to an end, and I am OK with that, I find it disappointing that others feel differently but thats their choice and I respect their right to exercise it, even though I disagree with it. And thats my right.

Of course.

My thoughts are currently that I am not in agreement with many of the measures in place and there are others that I'd like implemented, like masks, which arent, except in Victoria. I think we need to get those behaviours established and accepted as normal and then we may be able to manage or rather stem, infection rates and gradually reduce many of the restrictions that are currently impeding businesses. We need to permanently shore up infection control in vulnerable areas but which currently is not being done on a widespread basis. And then to top if off, we get exceptions, esp in SA, for the boffins that run the AFl if SA happens to get the GF. But at the same time, isolate border communities from going about their work, education and medical treatment. Which says to me that much of it is sham stuff.

My comments about taxes? Taxes are what is making Australia work. Past tense I guess.

 

[serfty]

That’s got nothing to do with this case or in the case of emergencies.

That maybe your opinion but I beg to differ.

 

[drron]

First Mel_Traveller the figure for depression due to the Pandemic is given in the graphic at the start of my post.% who developed moderate or severe depression during the pandemic 12.9%

And to TheRealTMA it was a survey of people who have lived through the pandemic in the UK not on the other side of the world.

Then This-

"TheRealTMA said:

The salient point is it was not a QLD government decision to prevent the patient’s entry to Brisbane.'

As a person who has actually arranged interstate transfer of patients for specialist services your opinions are wide of the mark.The specialist in Lismore would almost certainly have someone in Brisbane to whom that specialist refers.The Lismore doctor would ring the specialist in Brisbane to get the patient accepted.That is an absolute standard of referral before moving on to arrange their transport.We do not arrange transport or talk to hospital administration before we have agreement of the accepting doctor.

The Specialist at the Mater has very likely told their colleague in Lismore that they would need an exemption and probably have to serve 14 days quarantine so best to transfer to Sydney.

This all fits into the situation in QLD where AP had already stated the NSW hospitals are for NSW residents and QLD hospitals are for QLD people.So did AP,her Health minister or Dept of Health send a memo to QLD specialists saying ignore what I said you can accept Interstate transfers then sorry AP is responsible for this mistake for an error of omission not giving the staff of the Mater proper information.This fits perfectly with the gist of the Australian article.

 

[pangwen]

The Specialist at the Mater has very likely told their colleague in Lismore that they would need an exemption and probably have to serve 14 days quarantine so best to transfer to Sydney.

This all fits into the situation in QLD where AP had already stated the NSW hospitals are for NSW residents and QLD hospitals are for QLD people.So did AP,her Health minister or Dept of Health send a memo to QLD specialists saying ignore what I said you can accept Interstate transfers then sorry AP is responsible for this mistake for an error of omission not giving the staff of the Mater proper information.This fits perfectly with the gist of the Australian article.

Actually, AP's claim occurred on Tuesday 18 August (Double-lung recipient misses critical check-up because of border closure)

According to the CM, the case being discussed currently occurred a week earlier, on Wednesday 12 August (they flew to Sydney the next day, Thursday 13 August) - Category: <span> </span> | The Courier Mail

The family, based in Ballina, waited 16 hours to get on the flight to Sydney after trying to get emergency treatment for the infant in Brisbane but determining that applying for a border exemption would have taken too long.

The Courier-Mail understands the family did not apply for an exemption.

The parents were told that the Mother had a rare pregnancy condition, twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome (TTTS) on Wednesday. August 12.

They were flown to Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney the next day.

So while it may be appropriate to berate AP for her "QLD hospitals are for QLD people" speech, it does not in fact fit "into the situation in QLD where AP had already stated the NSW hospitals are for NSW residents and QLD hospitals are for QLD people". As AP had not yet said it (in public at least) when this situation occurred, then a memo saying "ignore what I will say next week" seems a bit premature.

 

[TheRealTMA]

That maybe your opinion but I beg to differ.

It’s not my ”opinion“ but the official policy of QLD Health and QLD government.

 

[drron]

Actually, AP's claim occurred on Tuesday 18 August (Double-lung recipient misses critical check-up because of border closure)

According to the CM, the case being discussed currently occurred a week earlier, on Wednesday 12 August (they flew to Sydney the next day, Thursday 13 August) - Category: <span> </span> | The Courier Mail



So while it may be appropriate to berate AP for her "QLD hospitals are for QLD people" speech, it does not in fact fit "into the situation in QLD where AP had already stated the NSW hospitals are for NSW residents and QLD hospitals are for QLD people". As AP had not yet said it (in public at least) when this situation occurred, then a memo saying "ignore what I will say next week" seems a bit premature.

Though this wasn't the only case many had been denied.this reports it was the twins case that prompted AP's comment.

NSW, Qld trade barbs over 'astonishing' hospital restrictions

The NSW health minister says the Queensland premier's comments that "in Queensland, we have Queensland hospitals for our people" are "astonishing".

thenewdaily.com.au

Not just an isolated case.And some of these cases in reports of the time did say it was the hospitals that refused permission.What did QLD officials do about that?
As I said transfers are organised specialist to specialist so someone in QLD knew about the case and at least raised doubts that exemption would be given or even if it was 14 days quarantine would be mandatory.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Though this wasn't the only case many had been denied.this reports it was the twins case that prompted AP's comment.

NSW, Qld trade barbs over 'astonishing' hospital restrictions

The NSW health minister says the Queensland premier's comments that "in Queensland, we have Queensland hospitals for our people" are "astonishing".

thenewdaily.com.au

Not just an isolated case.And some of these cases in reports of the time did say it was the hospitals that refused permission.What did QLD officials do about that?
As I said transfers are organised specialist to specialist so someone in QLD knew about the case and at least raised doubts that exemption would be given or even if it was 14 days quarantine would be mandatory.

The twins case aside, this case is caught up in the medical transfers issue.

Flight home to Brisbane via Sydney puts 'urgent' follow-up cancer surgery in jeopardy

An Australian man based in Hong Kong could be forced to miss an important procedure if Queensland Health bars him from entering the state because his flight home stops via a COVID-19 hotspot.

www.abc.net.au

While it must be a difficult job to respond to all of these, it seems bureaucracy can get stifled and resorts to “computer says no” responses.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Not my opinion, I think he is doing ok, just trying to understand your posts

This should explain.
From The Bulletin via Facebook.

“
ANGRY EDITORS

FRECKLINGTON SUPPORTERS STOOP TO A NEW LOW

Since Friday the Queensland opposition leader, Deb Frecklington has been grandstanding and politicizing the unfortunate death to an unborn child.

She has accused the death of the poor child to the border closures and Annastacia Palaszczuk and that the parents were refused entry on medical grounds. This has been proven incorrect but it doesn’t stop the rabid Frecklington supporters from pushing the lie.
No one should be really using this tragedy to influence an election.
This wasn’t easy for us to write about, but we could not let the lie continue. We find the comments about Annastacia Palaszczuk abhorrent. To read men and women writing such hateful comments about Palaszczuk was just too much, so we decided not to remain quiet.
The parents of this unborn child have told Channel 7 that they do not blame anyone, but still Frecklington’s mob go on the attack.
You all know the tragic story about this family so we won’t go about it, our concern is how certain segments of our community will use it to try and discredit Anastasia Palaszczuk.
Dr Young said an “exemption would not have been necessary for the woman to receive treatment in Brisbane.” But the Frecklington mob don’t care they still want to play the blame game and it’s disgusting.
Dr Young also said “In the direction it very clearly says anyone can come across the border in an emergency," but Liberals will never let the truth get in the way of their witch hunt.
Dr Young said Queensland continued to provide emergency services to northern NSW and "that has never changed".
"Police do not stop ambulances, they do not stop Life Flight helicopters," she said.
Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said the “baby's death was a tragedy, but denied Queensland was not allowing urgent interstate medical cases to be treated in the state's hospitals.”
We all remember the heinous attack by Frecklington on Annastacia being childless, we all remember this comment made by Ms Frecklington. In December last year,
“Queensland Opposition Leader Deb Frecklington has been accused of a "low act" for appearing to suggest Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk was less suited to lead because she is not a mother.”
Ms Palaszczuk has been diagnosed with endometriosis and spoken openly about her fertility struggles in the past, but still the Frecklington mob attack. This is one comment on a Queensland page from a rabid Frecklington supporters, “Interesting what Brownwyn had to say about the childless feral Pilash@t.”(she was talking about Bronwyn Bishop, the Liberal haters are out in force in Queensland.
The concern that they are pretending to show for that family is hollow, they are only using it as a political weapon.
SHAME FRECKLINGTON SHAME QUEENSLAND LIBERALS.
Extracts from the Guardian and ABC.”

 

[Pushka]

And now SA may not open borders to NSW. . But possibly ACT. Bloody suppression policy. Yet AFL bosses from Victoria - come on in.

 

[TheRealTMA]

And now SA may not open borders to NSW. . But possibly ACT. Bloody suppression policy. Yet AFL bosses from Victoria - come on in.

Aw come on. Those who kick, throw balls and opponents around a field, or coach them, are not mere mortals like us plebs so obviously they are immune from ephemeral diseases that infect the rest of us.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

First Mel_Traveller the figure for depression due to the Pandemic is given in the graphic at the start of my post.% who developed moderate or severe depression during the pandemic 12.9%

That's right. But you top and tailed the piece to include statements about the lockdown... that the lockdown was beneficial for the UK and that Taiwan didn't have a lockdown.

I wasn't seeing the connection between the rise in depression and lockdowns per se. Just generally related to covid.

 

[tgh]

The drivel on the Us election thread is bad enough , but now we have labour "rhetoric" clogging up this thread.
Please delete this post.

 

[Steady]

This should explain.
From The Bulletin via Facebook.

“
ANGRY EDITORS

FRECKLINGTON SUPPORTERS STOOP TO A NEW LOW

Since Friday the Queensland opposition leader, Deb Frecklington has been grandstanding and politicizing the unfortunate death to an unborn child.

She has accused the death of the poor child to the border closures and Annastacia Palaszczuk and that the parents were refused entry on medical grounds. This has been proven incorrect but it doesn’t stop the rabid Frecklington supporters from pushing the lie.
No one should be really using this tragedy to influence an election.
This wasn’t easy for us to write about, but we could not let the lie continue. We find the comments about Annastacia Palaszczuk abhorrent. To read men and women writing such hateful comments about Palaszczuk was just too much, so we decided not to remain quiet.
The parents of this unborn child have told Channel 7 that they do not blame anyone, but still Frecklington’s mob go on the attack.
You all know the tragic story about this family so we won’t go about it, our concern is how certain segments of our community will use it to try and discredit Anastasia Palaszczuk.
Dr Young said an “exemption would not have been necessary for the woman to receive treatment in Brisbane.” But the Frecklington mob don’t care they still want to play the blame game and it’s disgusting.
Dr Young also said “In the direction it very clearly says anyone can come across the border in an emergency," but Liberals will never let the truth get in the way of their witch hunt.
Dr Young said Queensland continued to provide emergency services to northern NSW and "that has never changed".
"Police do not stop ambulances, they do not stop Life Flight helicopters," she said.
Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said the “baby's death was a tragedy, but denied Queensland was not allowing urgent interstate medical cases to be treated in the state's hospitals.”
We all remember the heinous attack by Frecklington on Annastacia being childless, we all remember this comment made by Ms Frecklington. In December last year,
“Queensland Opposition Leader Deb Frecklington has been accused of a "low act" for appearing to suggest Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk was less suited to lead because she is not a mother.”
Ms Palaszczuk has been diagnosed with endometriosis and spoken openly about her fertility struggles in the past, but still the Frecklington mob attack. This is one comment on a Queensland page from a rabid Frecklington supporters, “Interesting what Brownwyn had to say about the childless feral Pilash@t.”(she was talking about Bronwyn Bishop, the Liberal haters are out in force in Queensland.
The concern that they are pretending to show for that family is hollow, they are only using it as a political weapon.
SHAME FRECKLINGTON SHAME QUEENSLAND LIBERALS.
Extracts from the Guardian and ABC.”

Lots of words To answer a simple question, I’ve stated I think he is doing ok, do you think its (and everything else is) Scomo’s fault?
I’m curious though, in your opinion, was it a baby or a foetus that died ? As someone who is pro life, I consider it was a baby - I Personally cannot understand the pro death side and legislation allowing abortion up until birth.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Lots of words To answer a simple question, I’ve stated I think he is doing ok, do you think its (and everything else is) Scomo’s fault?
I’m curious though, in your opinion, was it a baby or a foetus that died ? As someone who is pro life, I consider it was a baby - I Personally cannot understand the pro death side and legislation allowing abortion up until birth.

I suggest you are expanding this into undiscussed areas. ProLife or not has nothing to do with this issue (on which of course we disagree but that’s irrelevant to the current discussion). Where did I say it was an issue for Scotty from Marketing? Just an issue with people of certain views and Murdock press blaming AP and labor bashing through fake news reports .
I assume you would like this in a different context.