State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[DC3]

Rubbish. Hospitals are for people. Not for politicians to play political games. Try it if we said hospitals are for white people, black people have their own hospitals ...

.

Please don’t get upset. We are all entitled to express our opinions among fellow-AFFers.

Attacking wth ‘rubbish’ does not change my view.

 

[Buzzard]

Possible for SA to open up NSW and ACT by next Friday assuming all goes well. If that happens then we only have a closure with Victoria. But of course WA shuts us out.

Interesting dialogue right now on radio from SA Premier. In a clear move to distance himself from Dan Andrews and AP, he is all about saving our economy first, preventing isolation of people, but taking into account health issues. The order of importance and battle between health and economy has been switched.

I hope so because we are going to NSW in about a week. Getting in is currently not a problem it's getting out that is.

 

[Pete98765432]

No other state has said that their hospitals are not for other people.

There are reasons why Queensland in particular is being singled out which stem from double standards and hypocrisy.

For sure it was a silly thing to say. I think states get funding to cover interstate use of their hospitals. I think the ACT gets funding in recognition of NSW residents using our hospitals. It was also politically silly as it was sure to be pounced upon.

However, that doesn't mean that the constant sniping, over and above that made of other premiers with similar border policies, is not politically motivated for the election.

 

[DC3]

Whether other states have said it or not, most of us cannot get to a hospital in another state, currently.

Things have changed with COVID, as we all know. Restricting access at borders is one way of managing the spread. Depending upon our entrenched political views we may like it, or not.

 

[jakeseven7]

Many people have long standing specialist requirements and established relationships. Unless you know someone with a complex condition you don’t understand.

Very true, for example Melbourne has a lot of the countries/world leading researchers and practitioners in the area of oncology that services the whole of Australia.

 

[OZDUCK]

If the SA wine industry was incinerated by an asteroid I’m sure it would make page 5 of the Australian

But you are broadly right about the priority of the political state border closures and the priorities in alleviating them.

We are talking here about the 3 big states that are so intrinsically linked from a social and commercial point of view they may as well be one because they operate as one.

Actually from a commercial point of view, ACT is meshed in with NSW and TAS is basically operated as a subsidiary of VIC. Indeed, VIC over the years has increasingly become the main ‘distributor’ to SA as well as a lot of manufacturing shifted east.

Anyway the big 3 states - that’s where the population is, the people and the money. Any everyone else knows once the big 3 open up, the little ones will quickly follow as well.

PS I love SA

Just a minor correction about "where the population is, the people and the money". You are certainly right about the population etc but W.A. is currently providing close to 40% of Australia's export income. So the money part is certainly debatable. I think that figure, and the GST distribution percentages, is a big part of why the PM has pretty much chosen to speak very softly about the W.A border closure.

 

[Pushka]

Very true, for example Melbourne has a lot of the countries/world leading researchers and practitioners in the area of oncology that services the whole of Australia.

And for instance, there is no pediatric Heart surgery unit in SA and all infants must go to Victoria or New South Wales for surgery.

 

[jakeseven7]

Just a minor correction about "where the population is, the people and the money". You are certainly right about the population etc but W.A. is currently providing close to 40% of Australia's export income. So the money part is certainly debatable. I think that figure, and the GST distribution percentages, is a big part of why the PM has pretty much chosen to speak very softly about the W.A border closure.

Very true - but the economic multiplier effect of the 3 big states economies is far far higher than WA’s clip via royalties to the Feds / lining the pockets of the mining corporations.

 

[OATEK]

Just a minor correction about "where the population is, the people and the money". You are certainly right about the population etc but W.A. is currently providing close to 40% of Australia's export income. So the money part is certainly debatable. I think that figure, and the GST distribution percentages, is a big part of why the PM has pretty much chosen to speak very softly about the W.A border closure.

Apart from FIFO workers, WA does not have such a huge impact on state border crossings as Vic/Qld. Anyone who has spent time in the border regions of Vic, NSW & Qld will know the extent to which local people rely on being able to cross for medical and other key services. You wont find big hospitals in Buronga or Dareton (NSW), but you will find one reasonably close in Mildura (Vic). My son-in-law's dad had a brain tumor, and lived in Ballina. He relied on being able to get to the Gold Coast hospital for all his specialist and treatment services. He passed away before Covid-19, but I am sure there are thousand of people in the same boat of relying on cross-border services in Wodonga and the NSW North Coast who have been treated very poorly in the whole border schemozzle.

 

[DC3]

And for instance, there is no pediatric Heart surgery unit in SA and all infants must go to Victoria or New South Wales for surgery.

Is that because the SA government sees it as not cost effective to provide the resources in Adelaide? I guess so.

 

[Pushka]

Is that because the SA government sees it as not cost effective to provide the resources in Adelaide? I guess so.

I'm guessing cost benefit/demand analysis doesnt do the maths. And with experts interstate it may mean unnecessary duplication of a service that is working well in non pandemic times.

 

[p--and--t]

Just a minor correction about "where the population is, the people and the money". You are certainly right about the population etc but W.A. is currently providing close to 40% of Australia's export income. So the money part is certainly debatable. I think that figure, and the GST distribution percentages, is a big part of why the PM has pretty much chosen to speak very softly about the W.A border closure.

Correct, mining is currently a large export income earner (fluctuates month to month, year to year) however only employs 2.4% of the population, and a large % of any profits are exported overseas. Also while all revenue is important, excise/royalties (other than petroleum) are smallish in the Fed revenue stream.

Small and medium sized businesses employ the majority of non-health & associated workers (the largest employment group) and recycle far money more through the economy, reduce the unemployment queues (dole, jobkeeper), contribute more through gst, and pay more taxes (not including royalties).

The biggest employers on ranking order (after health and associated) - Retail, Construction, Professional, Education, Manufacturing, Food and accommodation.

Mining is a very far 15th on the list.

On the Fed revenue side Excise and Customs is only around 8%. The more people we have employed and the more wages they get, the greater impact on federal revenue (which largely gets spent in AU).

IMHO More people being employed and being paid (not via job keeper or job seeker) are what will drag us out of the recession.

The following are pre-covid

 

[p--and--t]

I'm guessing cost benefit/demand analysis doesnt do the maths. And with experts interstate it may mean unnecessary duplication of a service that is working well in non pandemic times.

Usually the creation of centres of excellence attract the best minds to develop leading edge and more effective & efficient solutions.

In very niche fields in a country (and states) with a relatively low population, you can't sustain very many of those.

 

[jakeseven7]

Another day another depressing handling of a state border compassionate exemption request by the Queensland Government.

Lucky they bundled off Dr Young for ‘leave’ so she couldn’t dig her hole deeper but that didn’t stop the ‘powerless’ Anna flicking the blame onto her anyway

——-

QLD border crisis: Exemption denied to heartbroken family after son’s sudden death


A cold-hearted email to a grieving mother wanting attend her son’s funeral has exposed the brutal nature of Queensland’s harsh border restrictions.

Elena Turner, 72, lives only a few hours away from Queensland and has already lost two children in her lifetime.

This week Ms Turner discovered her son Wayne had died in hospital after suffering a series of strokes.

She desperately pleaded with Queensland Health officials to show compassion and enter the state from her country home in Gulmarrad, regional NSW

She pleaded with Queensland Health officials to show compassion and enter the state from her country home in Gulmarrad, regional NSW.

However, the short reply she received showed anything but compassion.

The terse reply briefly acknowledged her distress, but curtly added, “I draw your attention to the Queensland border restrictions, which will prevent your entry into Queensland.”

Ms Turner told the Courier Mail she could not understand why she is not allowed to attend the funeral, coming from a COVID-free area to southeast Queensland where there are active cases.

Cold border email to heartbroken family after son’s sudden death

A cold-hearted email to a grieving mother wanting attend her son’s funeral has exposed the brutal nature of Queensland’s harsh border restrictions.

www.news.com.au

 

[jakeseven7]

Surely the Queensland state border restrictions can be unwound to NSW now, what risk assessment is Dr Young relying on to tell Anna to keep denying all compassionate requests?

Sadly another tragic case of a father desperately trying to see his daughter with cancer and seeking an exemption has also been denied by the QLD government.

————

QLD Government COVID-19 border restrictions see NSW parents call for political help to visit children in Queensland hospitals

Four-year-old Charlotte Jones is fighting for her life in the Queensland Children's Hospital, while her New South Wales-based father is begging for an exemption to visit her without having to quarantine for 14 days.

The news follows a series of cases where people have been refused border exemptions on compassionate grounds.

Brad Jones is trapped across the New South Wales border in Lismore while his youngest daughter Charlotte undergoes chemotherapy in Brisbane.

Despite only being two hours away, he is unable to see her without paying for a two week stay in hotel quarantine across the border.

He is begging the Queensland Premier to loosen the restrictions so he can be by her side.

“Please Annastacia – have some compassion – I really want to see my daughter, she’s my little princess warrior.’

'She's in God's hands at the moment': NSW parents unable to visit children in Queensland hospitals

New South Wales-based parents have had to rely on local politicians to help them gain access to their children in Queensland hospitals.

www.google.com.au

 

[Seat0B]

Doesn't letting Tom Hanks return to Queensland allow the production of his film to continue, providing employment to the local production crew?

Well yes I'm sure it does, but I don't see why that is prioritised over a daughter seeing their father before he dies or a father seeing all his children before they die, or someone with an organ transplant getting their medical treatment...
I actually don't think it should be either/or - but making it so that the only people who gain admissionare those with economic clout like movie stars and footballers, is just outright wrong in my opinion YMMV.

 

[drron]

Is that because the SA government sees it as not cost effective to provide the resources in Adelaide? I guess so.

Nothing to do with cost.
In very specialised fields you need to have a large population to sustain such a service.It is known that in these fields you need to have a high volume of services to acheive the best results.
Earlier this year NSW demonstrated this when it was decided Sydney decided it could have 2 Paediatric cardiac surgical services.One of the leading surgeons decided that was dangerous so now is working in the US.

NSW 'will struggle to attract heart surgeons due to children's hospital indecision'

One of the country's top paediatric cardiac surgeons is leaving Westmead and the delay over the governments decision on heart surgery was a factor.

www.smh.com.au

 

[DC3]

Nothing to do with cost.
In very specialised fields you need to have a large population to sustain such a service ...

So, not about the cost. Interesting.

 

[jakeseven7]

Just on ABC news radio but the Daily Mail was the only link I can find for now (sorry ) - a lot commercial pressure is now coming onto the state governments asking for a sensible, co-ordinated approach to borders to avoid the premiers using the borders as political tools.

It’s going to be run in Queensland targeting Anna/Dr Young and interesting that Bain/VA2 are involved going after the hand that feeds them (QLD government) - but I guess they are also stuffed unless there is some rationality applied here.

———

Airline rivals Qantas and Virgin join forces to demand Queensland opens its borders safely


Australia's top airlines and travel agents are publicly pleading for Queensland's borders to open with rival travel agents Helloworld and Flight Centre have joined Qantas and Virgin to ask for state borders to be immediately opened

'A travel and tourism restart will be the key to Queensland coming out of the depths of the current recession,' Mr Turner told the Courier Mail.

Rival travel agency Helloworld has joined the push, with chief executive Andrew Burnes saying he couldn't see why low-case states Western Australia, Tasmania, South Australia, the ACT and Queensland didn't at least have their borders open to each other.

Virgin Australia chief executive officer Paul Scurrah said Australia had 'lost context' in its coronavirus response and asked for the government to consider opening borders where there is low risk between cities.

Mr Joyce said the New South Wales suppression strategy of tracking and tracing was successful in minimising the virus spread while allowing life to go back to normal.

Qantas, Virgin, Flight Centre, Helloworld call to open state borders

Australia's top airlines and travel agents are publicly pleading for Queensland's borders to open so they don't go broke.

www.google.com.au

 

[jakeseven7]

Was anyone watching Insiders this AM?

They are quite good at hinting at what is coming up.

There was unanimous condemnation and joking about how the QLD government is handling state border restrictions but also a great tip right at the end that the ACT is apparently poised to announce this week they have negotiated border openings with SA, which will put more pressure on QLD as well.