State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[antycbr]

Ah. But the costs of mental health can be neatly swept under the carpet and are very unsexy in an election campaign as opposed to mega movie stars and the glitz life and joy they bring to the great unwashed. And this thinking applies to every political colour.


Oh. This has always caused me to bang my head on the desk in frustration. At least these people are (generally) Aussies. Marshall in SA currently locks out its own residents if they have been in Victoria (even if they are happy to pay for isolation) yet is trying furiously to bring a group of 300 University students from overseas, likely China, and not an Aussie amongst them.

If I was the Federal Government I would deny all such requests unless the state agrees to the definition of a hotspot and the agricultural workers code.

It is reported in The Australian today that WA is trying to get overseas workers in for harvest. Littleproud has denied the request, pointing out that we need labour mobility in Australia first.

 

[Pushka]

If I was the Federal Government I would deny all such requests unless the state agrees to the definition of a hotspot and the agricultural workers code.

It is reported in The Australian today that WA is trying to get overseas workers in for harvest. Littleproud has denied the request, pointing out that we need labour mobility in Australia first.

And that currently is the case in SA it has been deferred by the Feds. It seems to be the only weapon they have right now. Morrison has said that until Australians are free to move both interstate and come home then it isn't a possibility. Of course, the sports people and movie stars get exceptions.

 

[jakeseven7]

If a decision was based on genuine health grounds, there should be no reason to back down. If they do, it indicates the original decision was based on flawed reasoning and all other decisions based on that same reasoning should immediately be reviewed, regardless of "pressure".

Oh there is plenty of flawed reasoning and flip flopping on border restrictions up here in Queensland... we think that is now the problem source because Anna keeps on denying she has anything to do with it and nothing she can do

Interesting logic that 1 or 40, or whatever the number is, citizens from low or no covid risk areas are too great a health risk to be allowed in as they are unable to manage the risk even if the person has been tested and can prove they are negative, but plane loads of untested people (many non-citizens) from very high risk covid areas overseas can land every day and be managed adequately with no pre-screening.

Actually the Tasmanian CHO said the chance was 1 in 10,000,000 from low risk areas. But the Premier decided to ignore this risk assessment anyway.

So in TAS and WA the premiers are ignoring their CHO’s. And in QLD the CHO is bossing around the premier who is powerless if we believe her claiming this.

What a mess.

 

[antycbr]

Actually the Tasmanian CHO said the chance was 1 in 10,000,000 from low risk areas. But the Premier decided to ignore this risk assessment anyway.
What a mess.

On that basis he should ban flights as they’re more likely to crash...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

On that basis he should ban flights as they’re more likely to crash...

I think we need to look at the outcomes here. Flying is a choice and an assumed risk. A vulnerable person may not have the choice whether they come into contact with Covid, or not. If they do, their chances of death may be much greater than 1 in 10 million.

Internationally your argument probably holds true. The government claims restrictions on travel are to stop us getting covid. But they don't ban us flying even though we may go to Bali and ride a motorbike without a helmet. Both are choices (to travel overseas, and to ride a bike.

 

[antycbr]

I think we need to look at the outcomes here. Flying is a choice and an assumed risk. A vulnerable person may not have the choice whether they come into contact with Covid, or not. If they do, their chances of death may be much greater than 1 in 10 million.

Internationally your argument probably holds true. The government claims restrictions on travel are to stop us getting covid. But they don't ban us flying even though we may go to Bali and ride a motorbike without a helmet. Both are choices (to travel overseas, and to ride a bike.

But there is no Covid in SA WA NT or TAS so your whole argument falls apart.

 

[jakeseven7]

Queenslander arranges plane banner to protest Queensland's controversial state border rules


A Brisbane lawyer says he is so outraged at Queensland's border stance that he will pay $1,800 every week to emblazon his opinion across the state's sky.

A plane trailing a banner that stated "she is heartless", flew from Coolangatta to Brisbane on Sunday.

James Stevens, CEO of a Brisbane law firm, said he paid for the message, which refers to Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk, out of his own pocket.

Speaking from a hotel room, where he is in quarantine after returning from Sydney, Mr Stevens said he was spurred on by the case of Canberra woman, Sarah Caisip.

'She is heartless': Man pays for plane banner to protest Palaszczuk's tough border stance

A Brisbane lawyer vows to pay $1,800 every week until Queensland's October 31 election to fly a plane trailing a banner that reads, "she is heartless" in protest over Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk's coronavirus border stance.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Pete98765432]

Queenslander arranges plane banner to protest Queensland's controversial state border rules


A Brisbane lawyer says he is so outraged at Queensland's border stance that he will pay $1,800 every week to emblazon his opinion across the state's sky.

A plane trailing a banner that stated "she is heartless", flew from Coolangatta to Brisbane on Sunday.

James Stevens, CEO of a Brisbane law firm, said he paid for the message, which refers to Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk, out of his own pocket.

Speaking from a hotel room, where he is in quarantine after returning from Sydney, Mr Stevens said he was spurred on by the case of Canberra woman, Sarah Caisip.



View attachment 227370

'She is heartless': Man pays for plane banner to protest Palaszczuk's tough border stance

A Brisbane lawyer vows to pay $1,800 every week until Queensland's October 31 election to fly a plane trailing a banner that reads, "she is heartless" in protest over Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk's coronavirus border stance.

www.abc.net.au

I find this quite disgusting. Sure, have a banner, something like “open the borders”, but not personal attacks like this.

 

[jakeseven7]

I find this quite disgusting. Sure, have a banner, something like “open the borders”, but not personal attacks like this.

Very very very high tensions up here on this.... there was a VOTE HER OUT plane up last week, but that is a bit off topic for this thread.

I think what would really help on state border restrictions is for the QLD government to very clearly explain their rationale for the decisions they are / and aren't making, to the pubic. On a regular basis. VIC is best practice in this area and as a result Dr Sutton has very very strong public support. They might not love all the decisions he makes, but they definitely trust him.

Currently the QLD government (amongst others) are not doing this, they are not providing any clear rationale and in fact worse - they are dodging communication opportunities to provide this information.

That leaves the public to fill the void of information with their own interpretation of what is going on - hence people are becoming furious and using words like heartless. They need to front up and explain.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But there is no Covid in SA WA NT or TAS so your whole argument falls apart.

Has every single person been tested?

 

[Seat0B]

Sydney people lying and transiting via Canberra

And surely that is a problem with a very easy fix - show an ACT driver's licence or boarding the plane is not allowed. For an abundance of caution, the Qld end could then check again on arrival just to make sure there were no stowaways . Much better idea than locking us all out, and really not that hard to do.

 

[Seat0B]

Do we know how many people have successfully sought and been granted exemptions? Decisions should be overturned on review if an error was made. The decision making process, and criteria, can also evolve as issues become known.

Whilst I understand the principle that you raise here, when you are very stressed about a medical or other emergency, it can be anything from hard to exhausting to beyond your capacity to make repeated applications for exemption/review of refusals. Slightly different example, but same concept - the aged care worker stuck in Nepal who made 10 applications before being allowed back, and a British physiotherapist who made 17 applications before being allowed in. Honestly, who has that sort of stamina when dealing with a family emergency?.

Also, those review processes take a lot of time, and by the time a review is completed, even if it goes in your favour, the need for the travel may well have passed (along with the relative you wanted to see before they died - honestly, attending the funeral is really the second best).

 

[TheRealTMA]

Interesting development.

Queensland man's daughter condemns Scott Morrison for turning funeral into 'a circus'

Alexandra Prendergast, whose father’s funeral became part of a federal-state brawl over borders, writes open letter to PM

www.theguardian.com

 

[Hillbilly64]

Lots of Queenslanders just remove the X pass once south of the border and go to areas outside the bubble. NSW won’t enforce Queensland restrictions.

Use of the X pass yesterday seemed mainly to be to go to the surfing carnival at Cabarita. Not sure how that is vital.

Maybe NSW should start to enforce restrictions on Queenslanders who can’t follow their own rules.

You don't need a reason if you live in the Border bubble postcodes, the exemption is for any purpose. Hubby went down fishing a few weeks ago and we are going spend a few days on the friendly side of the border (Casuarina) for a few days next week).

If you leave the bubble however and get caught - (i.e go to Bryon) you have to fly into Brisbane and hotel quanratine at your own expense. If you go to NSW from outside the bubble postcodes and get caught trying to come back into QLD the same happens.

 

[p--and--t]

Interesting development.

Queensland man's daughter condemns Scott Morrison for turning funeral into 'a circus'

Alexandra Prendergast, whose father’s funeral became part of a federal-state brawl over borders, writes open letter to PM

www.theguardian.com

Sad for the family and just what they didn't need.

Opportunistic & insensitive by Scotty from marketing? Absolutely?

Possibly might be good for a truckload of others in coming weeks if the pressure forces a change of border constraints. After all the recent "changes of mind" by the CHO appear to be from media pressure.

 

[get me outta here]

Well there’s a turn up, who’d of thought that doctors and the AMA board are now considered left of centre. Perhaps it is because they think climate change is real and will affect people’s health through heat stress etc. Having read some of their interviews and seen them on television I thought they actually seemed quite reasonable in their responses but yes are possible left of Donald Trump.

The AMA is now a true doctor's Union.the leadership is left of centre.
The medical experts in this situation are the infectious disease specialist,virologists and epidemiologists and many of them are not supporting State border closures.

 

[OZDUCK]

If I was the Federal Government I would deny all such requests unless the state agrees to the definition of a hotspot and the agricultural workers code.

It is reported in The Australian today that WA is trying to get overseas workers in for harvest. Littleproud has denied the request, pointing out that we need labour mobility in Australia first.

That is interesting as no such has been reported in W.A. What has been reported is that the W.A Tourism Council asked if Backpackers who were already in the country could have their working visa extended if they were prepared to work in the agricultural industry. It seems to be a perfectly reasonable request as backpackers have already been offered the opportunity for visa extension if they were prepared to work in other industries including, I believe, Nursing Homes.

 

[antycbr]

Has every single person been tested?

So how does that change the situation when not every single person inside a state has been tested?

 

[jakeseven7]

NSW coronavirus statistic could force Qld borders to reopen


NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian says her state has shown a promising figure to push for neighbouring state Queensland to reopen their borders.

On Monday, NSW recorded just one new case of COVID-19 community transmission from a total of four new infections.

Speaking to media on, Ms Berejiklian said that given her state’s lowering number of COVID-19 cases - she doesn’t “understand” why the Queensland government won’t ease on their restrictions.

“I don’t understand when case numbers are so low why you would even have borders up especially when you hear those heartbreaking stories of people separated from their relatives,” Berejiklian said.

“Having a border between Queensland and NSW is unnecessarily hurting citizens on both sides of the border.”

NSW figure that could force QLD to open

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian says her state has shown a promising figure to push for neighbouring state Queensland to reopen their borders.

www.news.com.au

 

[BNEFlyer]

Interesting development.

Queensland man's daughter condemns Scott Morrison for turning funeral into 'a circus'

Alexandra Prendergast, whose father’s funeral became part of a federal-state brawl over borders, writes open letter to PM

www.theguardian.com

And unsurprisingly the statement from the PM's spokesperson is false. It wasn't the Premier who brought up the issue in QT it was the Opposition Leader. They seem to forget that minutes are taken in Parliament.