State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[p--and--t]

That's pretty pathetic on their part.

Huge coincidence with the stars all aligning and exquisite timing for the next decision to be made and possibly great news being released with fanfare to the tourism industry 2 weeks before a special date at the end of October.

 

[antycbr]

Huge coincidence with the stars all aligning and exquisite timing for the next decision to be made and possibly great news being released with fanfare to the tourism industry 2 weeks before a special date at the end of October.

In the meantime the Gold Coast will have to survive another school holidays with no bookings from NSW.

 

[jakeseven7]

Huge coincidence with the stars all aligning and exquisite timing for the next decision to be made and possibly great news being released with fanfare to the tourism industry 2 weeks before a special date at the end of October.

That fact was not lost on the media either - a very very high risk strategy could easily blow up in their faces - especially with the SA announcement which caught QLD by surprise.

 

[Pushka]

Only review once a month? Good grief.

 

[p--and--t]

Only review once a month? Good grief.

Boy, so much criticism from other places. You clearly don't understand!

They are frantically busy with their thousands upon thousands of cases, hospitals over run, all their police busy at the borders, rejecting compassionate visa applications and answering questions about celebrities and footballers and you expect them to go to meetings (other than one particular subject) on a regular basis as well.

Tut tut

 

[antycbr]

Boy, so much criticism from other places. You clearly don't understand!

They are frantically busy with their thousands upon thousands of cases, hospitals over run, all their police busy at the borders, rejecting compassionate visa applications and answering questions about celebrities and footballers and you expect them to go to meetings (other than one particular subject) on a regular basis as well.

Tut tut

I thought they'd booted all of the people who can't prove multi-generational heritage as Queenslanders out of their hospital system?

I hope no one from Queensland goes in the water at Ballina and gets their leg bitten by a shark, as the ambulance will need to come from Coolangatta...

 

[Pushka]

Boy, so much criticism from other places. You clearly don't understand!

They are frantically busy with their thousands upon thousands of cases, hospitals over run, all their police busy at the borders, rejecting compassionate visa applications and answering questions about celebrities and footballers and you expect them to go to meetings (other than one particular subject) on a regular basis as well.

Tut tut

I guess the words “responsive, dynamic and flexible” were deleted from the Govt lexicon.

 

[p--and--t]

I thought they'd booted all of the people who can't prove multi-generational heritage as Queenslanders out of their hospital system?

I hope no one from Queensland goes in the water at Ballina and gets their leg bitten by a shark, as the ambulance will need to come from Coolangatta...

Hate to think what travel insurance costs will be when we are allowed to travel there, I mean if I got sick, them having to chopper me out to some other state because I don't have QLD passport.

 

[jakeseven7]

A good point 'NSW is only a few cases away from an outbreak but so is QLD' and every other state too.
So we need to start fighting this rationally, as one country.

----

Time to bring down Qld border: Berejiklian calls for end of political border wars

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian has encouraged Queensland to reopen its border completely after the state recorded no local cases for the first time in three months.

Queensland will expand its border bubble next Thursday to include northern NSW regions such as Byron and Lismore while South Australia will reopen its border entirely from tomorrow.

Ms Berejiklian said she would encourage Queensland to "go further, given where NSW is in the pandemic".

"It is time for the Queensland government to bring down the whole border."

She stressed that people want to plan for the school holidays and Christmas and that while NSW was only a few cases away from another outbreak so was Queensland and everyone else.

Coronavirus live updates: Europe offers vaccine makers indemnity over potential side effects

RBA deputy governor Guy Debelle says WA's closed borders and Victoria's shutdown are dragging on the economy; infections could be more common on planes than first thought. Follow updates here.

www.afr.com

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A good point 'NSW is only a few cases away from an outbreak but so is QLD' and every other state too.
So we need to start fighting this rationally, as one country.

The rational thing to do is to take measured steps. We are waiting the outcomes of vaccine trials, other treatments and preventions, and for the virus to naturally become less virulent.

It is completely irrational to undo months of hard work for a couple week's income to business... before we have to shut down again like in Europe.

This thread is about the legality of border closures. Those border closures are based on health grounds. They haven't been deemed illegal at this stage.

 

[p--and--t]

The rational thing to do is to take measured steps. We are waiting the outcomes of vaccine trials, other treatments and preventions, and for the virus to naturally become less virulent.

It is completely irrational to undo months of hard work for a couple week's income to business... before we have to shut down again like in Europe.

This thread is about the legality of border closures. Those border closures are based on health grounds. They haven't been deemed illegal at this stage.

(Substantiated) Health grounds sure. 100% support.

But refusing to holding a review of the border closure for reasons totally unrelated to health grounds and openly admitting looking the other way to allow some people and not others to cross the border for purely economic grounds is a different matter.

 

[Pushka]

Like all things in life there is a middle ground but it seems very few Officials want to go there but instead have to polarise - marking their place so to speak like cats and dogs so.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

(Substantiated) Health grounds sure. 100% support.

But refusing to holding a review of the border closure for reasons totally unrelated to health grounds and openly admitting looking the other way to allow some people and not others to cross the border for purely economic grounds is a different matter.

We’ve seen in victoria a single person infecting 40 others. The CDC has recently confirmed multiple cases of transmission on separate aircraft.

So those are health grounds on which the border policy could be based.

 

[p--and--t]

We’ve seen in victoria a single person infecting 40 others. The CDC has recently confirmed multiple cases of transmission on separate aircraft.

So those are health grounds on which the border policy could be based.

On that basis we can close the borders permanently until the end of time. No vaccine will be 100% effective, not everyone will be vaccinated and the virus will be in someone's body on earth as long as humanity exists.

We don't close the borders to people maybe catching the flu on an aircraft and some 3000 people per annum dying from it in AU alone every single year.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

On that basis we can close the borders permanently until the end of time. No vaccine will be 100% effective, not everyone will be vaccinated and the virus will be in someone's body on earth as long as humanity exists.

We don't close the borders to people maybe catching the flu on an aircraft and some 3000 people per annum dying from it in AU alone every single year.

There are a number of treatments, preventions and cures in progress. We should at least recognise the hard work of our frontline medical staff, and citizens, in trying to manage this virus. A couple more months and we’ll know whether we have an effective way to mange it, or we have to ‘learn to live with it’. If the flu was a brand new occurrence, seen for the first time in 2020, we’d probably have the same measures we’re implementing for covid!

There is no pressing reason to dismantle health protections *yesterday* as some are demanding, especially with new information such as transmission on aircraft now being confirmed, as well as new tests showing many more people may have been infected than once thought.

 

[Pushka]

as well as new tests showing many more people may have been infected than once thought

But which haven't resulted in our hospitals being overwhelmed, which was, at the commencement, the whole objective.

 

[antycbr]

Looks like the ADF is going to be pulled out from administering the Queensland/NSW border but remain in place for Hotel Quarantine.

Smart move by Scott Morrison - made no sense to be enforcing something that the Federal Government fundamentally disagrees with (and I am sure there are better uses for the ADF).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1308266581755965441

 

[p--and--t]

as well as new tests showing many more people may have been infected than once thought.

So heaps more people are getting infected than we thought, and not getting sick, and not going to hospital, and not risking our health workers, and not taking up critical essential services and not an economic burden on the economy and potentially didn't infect anyone else because the numbers are not exploding.

When NSW gets down to 1 case per day in 7M people and QLD says they are a hotspot and too much of a risk - it would be laughable - except its not a laughing matter.

I think you just shot yourself in the foot.

 

[jakeseven7]

Looks like the ADF is going to be pulled out from administering the Queensland/NSW border but remain in place for Hotel Quarantine.

Smart move by Scott Morrison - made no sense to be enforcing something that the Federal Government fundamentally disagrees with (and I am sure there are better uses for the ADF).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1308266581755965441

Wait what, we have to pay to man our own border restrictions that no CHO agrees with except our own..... how is that fair?

I think this move is completely rational. QLD CHO wants a border, QLD can pay for it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But which haven't resulted in our hospitals being overwhelmed, which was, at the commencement, the whole objective.

Fortunately that’s right! But if we hadn’t had the lockdowns and other measures, it could have been very different. Bad enough as it was without those additional cases