State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[Pushka]

The QLD SES would be quite capable in assistIng the QLD Police with their border control matters.

The ADF are not using any special capability here.

I cant see SES wanting to touch this exercise. It isn't why they volunteer to serve.

 

[jakeseven7]

SES are mostly unpaid volunteers, I'm sure they would be capable but I would prefer them to only be used in actual emergencies like floods, bushfires, cyclones etc or assisting police when a lot of manpower is needed for a short time such as large scale searches - not for long term routine state border controls and administration. If state governments want that they they have to pay for it.

There is absolutely no way the QLD government will try and use the SES to help patrol a border. It is so far beyond their scope in today’s circumstance it isn’t funny, there is no acute emergency.

Perhaps if NSW was a state ravaged by a flesh eating zombie virus or if cases where in the 1000’s a day.... (But I think in those situations the Feds would deploy the ADF again and hopefully with special zombie ray guns )

 

[DC3]

I cant see SES wanting to touch this exercise. It isn't why they volunteer to serve.

Well, if you don’t ask, you will never know.

 

[jakeseven7]

I cant see SES wanting to touch this exercise. It isn't why they volunteer to serve.

Agree and anyway they aren’t needed so they don’t even need to be asked.

There is no evidence-based medical advice for the NSW-QLD border anymore - well any state border actually with the exclusion of VIC (for now, soon to change).

Because there is not sufficient medical advice/support, and therefore no acute threat, they’ve removed our military.

If QLD disagrees it is fair we sort it out ourselves and pay for it as no one else agrees with us anymore.... It’s not any other states responsibility and it’s our problem we don’t have enough police now to stretch across the border.

 

[DC3]

Anyway, there must be plenty of out of work people who would benefit from being paid to take on a role in assisting QLD Police at the border.

Former flight attendants who have lost their jobs (sans drinks trollies). Is that more up the AFF alley?

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

Anyway, there must be plenty of out of work people who would benefit from being paid to take on a role in assisting QLD Police at the border.

Former flight attendants who have lost their jobs (sans drinks trollies). Is that more up the AFF alley?

Maybe put the Lounge Dragons on the job; no one would get past them...

 

[serfty]

Former flight attendants who have lost their jobs (sans drinks trollies). Is that more up the AFF alley?

Actually, let them keep the trollies - provides for additional weaponry.

 

[Pushka]

Anyway, there must be plenty of out of work people who would benefit from being paid to take on a role in assisting QLD Police at the border.

Former flight attendants who have lost their jobs (sans drinks trollies). Is that more up the AFF alley?

Well, we know where work for the dole scheme ends up. By the time they equip anyone who applies with the required training to deal with very stressed people hopefully the pandemic will be over. Because it will take that long. And we all know what happens when we put randoms in charge of any kind of a "keeper" role.

 

[jakeseven7]

Why can’t QLD and NSW engage constructively on this? I mean VIC and NSW are already planning in advance for a full reopening.....

We can’t even agree to the agriculture permit to help QLD farmers out - it’s getting insane.

I understand unfortunately we have a very controversial CHO in QLD but surely someone can be at least engaging her from other states?

—-

NSW and VIC prepare for the removal of state border restrictions, new expanded agriculture permit launched

From Friday, a new agriculture permit will allow workers to travel through NSW and Victoria, foreshadowing further expansions of the border zone.

The permit is available on the Services NSW website and comes with conditions, including self-isolation when not working, and personal protective equipment use.

There are 50,000 daily movements across the NSW-Victoria border, up from 20,000 before restrictions were eased and the zone expanded to a 50km radius earlier this month, Murray River Police District Commander Superintendent Paul Smith said.

Justin Clancy, member for Albury, said discussions were with the NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard to extend the border zone.

"We are also having ongoing discussions with the NSW government and planning through the next steps in terms of removal of the border full stop," Mr Clancy said.

The collaboration between the NSW and Victorian state governments on border management has been in stark contrast with the adversarial stance taken by the Queensland state government with its southern neighbour. Queensland has also refused to sign up to the agriculture permit program presented at National Cabinet.

As it happened: Daniel Andrews eases restrictions, scraps curfew across Melbourne as state records 16 COVID-19 cases; Australian death toll stands at 870

The Victorian government on Sunday announced the lockdown rules for step two that will apply in metropolitan Melbourne until at least mid October. The curfew ends at 5am on Monday.

www.smh.com.au

 

[DC3]

Well, we know where work for the dole scheme ends up. By the time they equip anyone who applies with the required training to deal with very stressed people hopefully the pandemic will be over. Because it will take that long. And we all know what happens when we put randoms in charge of any kind of a "keeper" role.

Randoms? No, not suggesting randoms at all. I don’t know where that came from. Just because people who are out of work could be considered, not all would be suitable.

Assisting police at borders does not conjure images of control, because the police are controlling this. The ADF, for example are/were never in the “keeper” role at the borders.

But, hey, I accept we have differing views on State border controls as a matter of course.

Edited

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And we all know what happens when we put randoms in charge of any kind of a "keeper" role.

Worse than that... it wasn't even 'randoms' in the case of hotel quarantine in Vic. They were supposed to be trained security guards, and the contracts stipulated full PPE! (perhaps it's more a case of putting companies where profit is a motive rather than non-profit?)

 

[Pushka]

Randoms? No, not suggesting randoms at all. I don’t know where that came from.

Assisting police at borders does not conjure images of control, because the police are controlling this. The ADF, for example are/were never in the “keeper” role at the borders.

But, hey, I accept that some of us are opposed to continuing State border controls as a matter of course.

Just referring to civilian people who just rock up for a job application.

Having come through Adelaide airport where there is border control processing (only Qld and NT open at that stage) then it is a quite specific task requiring people to hand over all sorts of personal ID and information. Unless that person was wearing a uniform that I recognised I would not be happy to do so.

In Brisbane airport there were likewise Police Officers interviewing us.

 

[DC3]

Just referring to civilian people who just rock up for a job application.

Having come through Adelaide airport where there is border control processing (only Qld and NT open at that stage) then it is a quite specific task requiring people to hand over all sorts of personal ID and information. Unless that person was wearing a uniform that I recognised I would not be happy to do so.

At the State border we probably wouldn’t need to be too concerned by providing the required documents.

The Police Officer standing nearby would accept them from you if you are worried about some shady-looking assistant at a Police control point. Assistants could wear a nice official-looking vest, perhaps.

 

[Pushka]

At the State border we probably wouldn’t need to be too concerned by providing the required documents.

The Police Officer standing nearby would accept them from you if you are worried about some shady-looking assistant at a Police control point. Assistants could wear a nice official-looking vest, perhaps.

The Airports have become the de facto state border. As well as the roads.

If the Governments are requiring people to hand over ID's, addresses, contacts etc etc then the minimum they should expect people to be comfortable with are Police Officers. Bear in mind we were SA residents returning to our home and directly from a "safe" city but still had to do the drill with them. Vests? Even I have one of those and I wouldn't trust me!

 

[jakeseven7]

The Airports have become the de facto state border. As well as the roads.

If the Governments are requiring people to hand over ID's, addresses, contacts etc etc then the minimum they should expect people to be comfortable with are Police Officers. Bear in mind we were SA residents returning to our home and directly from a "safe" city but still had to do the drill with them. Vests? Even I have one of those and I wouldn't trust me!

Who really cares anyway, the borders are becoming less and less relevant as they are removed so less and less people will be required to patrol them

Did we ever get clarity on whether Dr Young got to hit her special border clock and reset it to zero on NSW - was that mystery case cleared up?
(Should probably ask in the other thread I guess)

 

[DC3]

... Vests? Even I have one of those ...

If there’s no photo, then it doesn’t exist.

 

[antycbr]

SMH: Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack has said Victoria's roadmap to recovery is not moving quickly enough, calling on all states to reopen their borders as the federal government announces more relief for the aviation industry.

The Feds have the ability to control participation in the NZ travel bubble, and I expect that they will not be backwards in using that stick while domestic borders are closed.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Everyone is pretty much in agreement in Victoria - the restrictions are being eased gradually, with a three week period to assess the impacts. Understand people would like it to be quicker, but the three week interval is essential to monitor the outcome of each step.

On a side note... Qantas is also unhappy with state borders being closed. They are using the example that grandparents can't see their grandchildren as reason to open up. The problem with this seems to be that most commentators agree that 'opening up' still involves protecting the elderly or vulnerable... so even if there was a full opening tomorrow, you still couldn't see your grandparents as they'd be 'shielded'!

 

[Pushka]

SMH: Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack has said Victoria's roadmap to recovery is not moving quickly enough, calling on all states to reopen their borders as the federal government announces more relief for the aviation industry.

The Feds have the ability to control participation in the NZ travel bubble, and I expect that they will not be backwards in using that stick while domestic borders are closed.

Currently given we have been locked out of Victoria for so long I can't see why the border needs to be open just yet. NSW has only just opened and their case numbers have been controlled for some time. Just too many unknowns and let's just say my confidence with management just isn't there right now. SA is open to all but Victoria and has no active cases in the community and hasn't for weeks now but it seems to be ignored when it comes to the NZ bubble so if NZ dont want us then not interested.

 

[DC3]

...On a side note... Qantas is also unhappy with state borders being closed. They are using the example that grandparents can't see their grandchildren as reason to open up ...

Someone at QF actually said that as a reason?

I hope that their case relies on things a bit more substantial than that.