State border closures illegal under the highest law in the country?

[bigbadbyrnes]

Everything is arguable in law, doubly so in constitutional law. This is a matter for the high court.

But here's my opening argument;

Section 92 of the highest law in the country sets out "On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free. "

Per Cole vs Whitfield 1988 "The notions of absolutely free trade and commerce and absolutely free intercourse are quite distinct". Sec92 clearly sets out the law for interstate trade, but also 'intercourse'.

And on the matter of what intercourse means, per Gratwick v Johnson 1945 it's the ability "to pass to and fro among the States without burden, hindrance or restriction".

Border closures, (and arguably although less certainly isolation requirements), are therefore inconsistent with the highest law in the country and should be set aside.

No one is talking about it, any legal eagles here explain? There's no room on the news for this at the moment, but if people start to fed up with the restrictions, it's worth getting them tested in the high court.

edit:

I think this analysis will answer all your questions: States are shutting their borders to stop coronavirus. Is that actually allowed?

Short version: if there are good public health grounds (for example states of emergency), those laws are likely to be held valid.

Could be worth testing if an individual could be proven to be not a thread to public health, but that would be the exception. Thanks MEL_Traveller for sharing the article.

/thread

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

We are in a pandemic. Everyone is making sacrifices. Not seeing your grandkids for a few months is understandably frustrating, but there are many other factors at play.

But no one knows when someone’s last day on Earth is. So a few months could turn into forever if someone dies of say natural causes in the interim.

 

[Flashback]

At the moment I don't think there are non-stop flights between Tasmania and WA. A flight would involve a transit, and the potential risk of transmission along the way. The Federal Court discussed the options of 'bubbles' and hotspots and determined border closure was the most effective.

For those approaching the end of life, if they get covid, it will be a slow and uncomfortable death, in isolation, separated from their family. Not only does this put enormous strain on the families involved, it also affects our hardworking front-line staff... the paramedics taking the elderly person to hospital, the nurses, and the ICU nurses.

We are in a pandemic. Everyone is making sacrifices. Not seeing your grandkids for a few months is understandably frustrating, but there are many other factors at play.

One thing I should add due to first hand experience, is it's great for people to say it's so much easier now with video chats, but when kids are a certain age it doesn't really help. I speak with my nieces quite often and when I am then physically there they often don't join the dots and realise I'm the same person.

 

[jakeseven7]

If the risk is 'so incredibly high' then why are we letting footy players come in, do whatever they want, wherever they want? Or anyone for that matter....

---
QLD border battle intensifies as Deputy PM attacks Annastacia Palaszczuk's border restrictions

A new border battlefront has erupted as Queensland now has only eight active COVID-19 cases and the state recorded no new infections on Monday morning.

Three cases were confirmed on Sunday in Queensland and it comes as the deputy Prime Minister is asking the Queensland Government to remove border restrictions and end hard closures in order to bring the country back together.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk earlier issued a stern new warning about new waves of coronavirus that are “wreaking havoc around the world, claiming lives and ravaging economies, the risk is so incredibly high for us right now”

Speaking on Monday morning, Michael McCormack said it wasn’t “good enough” that Australians couldn’t move freely within their own country and accused Palaszczuk of "cherry picking advice for political gain" as the state draws closer to the election.

“We want the Premiers of those states who have still got very tight lockdowns to ease those restrictions, and listen to the medical advice” Mr McCormack said.

Coronavirus Australia live: How you could get extra $2565

<p>In an attempt to combat the COVID-19 recession, income tax cuts could be brought forward following next week's federal budget, with some Aussies in for an extra $2565 by January. </p> <p> </p> <p> </p> <p> </p>

www.news.com.au

 

[Anna]

SACA also offered for you not to renew your membership this year and hold it over until next year without any penalty. It would be interesting to know how many people did that. I know a couple who did

I took up the offer of 'absentee membership' for $80 that they were offering, if that's what you mean by the offer not to renew. So I can't go to the cricket this coming season, but I can renew my membership next year. I think SACA are doing their best to reduce numbers because normally I would not be eligible for absentee membership, but being a close contact of an at risk person is enough.

Off topic? This whole thread has been off topic for weeks!

 

[oz_mark]

I live in hope.

State of play; Case is due before the High Court on November 3 and 4. Decision will take some time to arrive at, but I'm guessing before Christmas.

Federal Court established agreed upon facts included the closures were intended to protect health. Stevie Wonder could have seen that, it was never in doubt. What the court must rule on is if the restrictions are inconsistent with the parts of the constitution which protect free interstate commerce and travel, and guarantee citizens of different states are treated equally.

Weighing up current health vs. future health concerns (ie economic concerns), freedom etc is a job for elected politicians. Weighing up competing legal arguments and interpreting how consistent each is with the highest law in the country is a job for the best seven judges in the country. So long as they aren't too busy posting on AFF. Which reminds me, back to work.

The federal court included statements around the probability of transmission from various states (e.g. the chance of someone bringing Covid-19 into WA from Tasmania was very low). Each state was given a rating. It will be interesting to see if that means WA could have made an appropriate response to each state separately. Much like what most of the other states have done.

 

[jakeseven7]

The federal court included statements around the probability of transmission from various states (e.g. the chance of someone bringing Covid-19 into WA from Tasmania was very low). Each state was given a rating. It will be interesting to see if that means WA could have made an appropriate response to each state separately. Much like what most of the other states have done.

There is actually significantly more chance of being stung to death by bees or killed by lightning than a case being imported/exported from those two states.
But you know, elections to win, must terrify population to win and ignore medical advice.... and on we go!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But no one knows when someone’s last day on Earth is. So a few months could turn into forever if someone dies of say natural causes in the interim.

Agree. But that's why most people are making sacrifices. For some it's not being able to go out for dinner. For others it's not being able to have friends over for dinner. For others it's not being able to see the grandkids for a few months.

And that's on the assumption that grandparents and grandkids are all fit and healthy. The irony is that if they aren't all fit and healthy, quarantine or strict distancing probably applies anyway, so you still wouldn't be able to see them

 

[DC3]

And just why is it ridiculous that Grandparents want to see their grandkids? ...

The ridiculous part is Qantas claiming to be unhappy with state borders being closed because grandparents can't see their grandchildren. I believe that we can see through that little ploy.

 

[drron]

At the moment I don't think there are non-stop flights between Tasmania and WA. A flight would involve a transit, and the potential risk of transmission along the way. The Federal Court discussed the options of 'bubbles' and hotspots and determined border closure was the most effective.

For those approaching the end of life, if they get covid, it will be a slow and uncomfortable death, in isolation, separated from their family. Not only does this put enormous strain on the families involved, it also affects our hardworking front-line staff... the paramedics taking the elderly person to hospital, the nurses, and the ICU nurses.

We are in a pandemic. Everyone is making sacrifices. Not seeing your grandkids for a few months is understandably frustrating, but there are many other factors at play.

However I have supported an application for exemption for an adult granddaughter from WA to come to Tasmania via SA as her grandfather was dying.She arrived a few hours before he died and In Tasmania that meant she was able to see and talk to him.I have no idea if she got back to WA but she left at home 2 young children so hopefully there was compassion from WA-I didn't hear from the family so I assume she got home.

And of today not even Melbourne reaches the proposed National definition of a hotspot.The Federal Court does not act as the expert health witnesses that are available to the PM and most States.

 

[Pushka]

Agree. But that's why most people are making sacrifices. For some it's not being able to go out for dinner. For others it's not being able to have friends over for dinner. For others it's not being able to see the grandkids for a few months.

And that's on the assumption that grandparents and grandkids are all fit and healthy. The irony is that if they aren't all fit and healthy, quarantine or strict distancing probably applies anyway, so you still wouldn't be able to see them

I cant equate not being able to see and hug grandchildren or any loved one that lives in Australia, for months on end, with simply not going out to a dinner. There is no comparison whatsoever.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I cant equate not being able to see and hug grandchildren or any loved one that lives in Australia, for months on end, with simply not going out to a dinner. There is no comparison whatsoever.

There are single people in lockdown in Victoria that are desperate for social interaction... going to meet friends, going out for a meal. Been tough on a lot of people.

 

[Pushka]

There are single people in lockdown in Victoria that are desperate for social interaction... going to meet friends, going out for a meal. Been tough on a lot of people.

Of course. I cant imagine. It has taken a toll on our downstairs neighbour. But hopefully they have many years to look forward to life but those of advanced age simply don't. As an oldie the thing I most have is family because I just don't know when my time is up and the older I get the louder that clock ticks.

 

[blackcat20]

One thing I should add due to first hand experience, is it's great for people to say it's so much easier now with video chats, but when kids are a certain age it doesn't really help. I speak with my nieces quite often and when I am then physically there they often don't join the dots and realise I'm the same person.

Miss TC runs away crying when she hears the Skype/FaceTime connection noise So she’s completely unfamiliar with her grandparents now.

 

[Pushka]

Miss TC runs away crying when she hears the Skype/FaceTime connection noise So she’s completely unfamiliar with her grandparents now.

Miss TC will soon meet with her grandies and I sure this will be a distant memory. Kids are resilient. And forgiving.

 

[DC3]

When they meet, just make sure not to worry about the kids saying things like “Why does Grandma smell funny”. Otherwise it may spoil the moment.

Edited

 

[Hvr]

So she’s completely unfamiliar with her grandparents now.

My sister got to see her grandchildren recently for the first time in several months (legally). At 13 months old the twin girls had different approaches. One was very happy to see her in person, and was very pleased to cuddle grandma and babble excitedly. The other one preferred to just stay back and observe what was happening.

 

[Pushka]

My sister got to see her grandchildren recently for the first time in several months (legally). At 13 months old the twin girls had different approaches. One was very happy to see her in person, and was very pleased to cuddle grandma and babble excitedly. The other one preferred to just stay back and observe what was happening.

Always best to wait for the child to make the approaches and at the same time appear approachable. And not smell apparently.

 

[drron]

A nice feeling in the suoermarket today when a young girl probably about 4 gave me a very cheery hello.Her mother told her not to talk to strangers so the girl said -but that's the man looking after Grandma.Her mother apologised.That child is going to go places!
Just goes to show that grandparents are important.

 

[jase05]

Some chatter that Tassie is opening up to all but NSW and Victoria by the end of October

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Some chatter that Tassie is opening up to all but NSW and Victoria by the end of October

Well still behind NT, which is flagging opening up to Sydney on 9 October......