Strange VA experience - what would you do?

[concorde71]

As a cabin manager on a virgin group airline I wish this feedback was passed on to the company as if not just for coaching purposes. The cabin crew involved would not be sacked but reminded on etiquete and the importance of it. As the virgin group are very strong on changing our brand perception it is important that this kind of behavior is rectified. It was obviously a negative experience to the op and if anything was a negative experience with our airline. In the past this behavior would be seen as probably ok. This is not the case now. If the original op wants to pm me the details I will forward to the relevant parties if not the cabin manager on duty so this behavior can be if at the least spoken about so it does not happen again.

Apologies to the op involved this is not typical virgin/ v aus behavior and is not condoned or laughed about lightly

Regards.

Chewthecrew

Oh well I guess we can scratch that off the list of ënhancements"

 

[milehighclub]

As a cabin manager on a virgin group airline I wish this feedback was passed on to the company as if not just for coaching purposes. The cabin crew involved would not be sacked but reminded on etiquete and the importance of it. As the virgin group are very strong on changing our brand perception it is important that this kind of behavior is rectified. It was obviously a negative experience to the op and if anything was a negative experience with our airline. In the past this behavior would be seen as probably ok. This is not the case now. If the original op wants to pm me the details I will forward to the relevant parties if not the cabin manager on duty so this behavior can be if at the least spoken about so it does not happen again.

Apologies to the op involved this is not typical virgin/ v aus behavior and is not condoned or laughed about lightly

Regards.

Chewthecrew

I think what you are doing is pretty low.

Crew stick together - it's what allows us to do things like sneaky upgrades or other little no no's that crew do and crew keep their mouths shut. I've seen only negative things from crew "dobbing" or reporting and that is usually to the disadvantage of everyone - just ask any Qantas flight attendant at the moment. It also is usually because the crew member wishes to climb the ladder.

This happened nearly 2 months ago. If it was such a big issue the OP should of dealt with it onboard, or as soon as possible after the flight. Writing about it 2 months later seems a little pointless to me. Telling you so you can go tell someone is a bad idea too.

I just don't think it's very nice what you are offering to do - it didn't involve you, you were not there.

I'm not supporting nor condoning what happened but ultimately it's up to the OP to use the appropriate feedback channels to report it, one of which is not a new user on a forum.

It's great that you passionate about your job and brand. I am as well along with other employees that post on here, but someone who is a manager obviously has a few years flying behind them would be well aware of crew culture - it's like a unwritten book the same I'm sure in many industries.

Oh and that new "brand perception" you referred to - your new uniform launch sold me nothing but sex, sex and more sex - I've never seen a female pilot with so much cleavage exposed.

 

[UP4014]

I think what you are doing is pretty low.

I just don't think it's very nice what you are offering to do - it didn't involve you, you were not there.

Oh and that new "brand perception" you referred to - your new uniform launch sold me nothing but sex, sex and more sex - I've never seen a female pilot with so much cleavage exposed.

Agree, maybe it was seen and has already been dealt with. It isn't up to another "team leader" to get involved in another team, another aircraft, another time.

chewthecrew sounds just that, someone who chews the crew out.

Matt

 

[Keith009]

Agree that it's entirely unprofessional. However unless I was denied service, I wouldn't report it. I'd feel like a tell tale if I reported something like that. :-|

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I think what you are doing is pretty low.

It also is usually because the crew member wishes to climb the ladder.

This happened nearly 2 months ago. If it was such a big issue the OP should of dealt with it onboard, or as soon as possible after the flight. Writing about it 2 months later seems a little pointless to me. Telling you so you can go tell someone is a bad idea too.

I just don't think it's very nice what you are offering to do - it didn't involve you, you were not there.

I'm not supporting nor condoning what happened but ultimately it's up to the OP to use the appropriate feedback channels to report it, one of which is not a new user on a forum.

+1
2 months after the event happened is way too late in my books. Water under the bridge.

 

[stuartfaz]

I love the snark on these boards! It's hard to tell if these are real travellers or just kids snarking from their mother's basements...

Why can't we be both? :mrgreen:

My general reaction to the situation is 'meh'. If you've got your partner on a 16 hour flight then a few harmless shenanigans are...umm...part of the service. As long as there wasn't a bit of how's your father say no more say no more, then no big deal.

Although I have to point one thing out:

I think what you are doing is pretty low.

Crew stick together - it's what allows us to do things like sneaky upgrades or other little no no's that crew do and crew keep their mouths shut. I've seen only negative things from crew "dobbing" or reporting and that is usually to the disadvantage of everyone - just ask any Qantas flight attendant at the moment. It also is usually because the crew member wishes to climb the ladder.

Vey valid point, but, considering you were supporting the situation the OP described, boy did I laugh when I saw your username!

OK I'm done.

 

[medhead]

Wow, I took the OP to be a question along the lines of "I saw this and did nothing, what would you do?" Yet lots here are taking it as being a request of advice on what to do. I respectfully suggest that some people need to take a Bex and have a good laydown.

I think what you are doing is pretty low.

Crew stick together - it's what allows us to do things like sneaky upgrades or other little no no's that crew do and crew keep their mouths shut. I've seen only negative things from crew "dobbing" or reporting and that is usually to the disadvantage of everyone - just ask any Qantas flight attendant at the moment.

As a safety professional I have so many problems with this I don't know where to start. Are you seriously advocating a secret, vow of silence workgroup? That might be nice when you get little perks of the job on the side (ignoring perceptions that staff get into J seats in front of customers). But frankly that sort of attitude leads to bad stuff. Bullying and coughisation in the work place, all the way to ignoring safety (OHS not flying safety) rules that eventually leads to someone getting killed. It is an insidous and dangerous culture to have in a workplace.

You may think I'm going over the top. But I have seen coughisation in the military. I have almost been blown up in the workplace because of someone ignoring basic safety rules and doing what the "workgroup" has always done. There has also been at least one death at that same workplace that could have be caused by the same stuff (speculation as I never saw the investigation findings). I also know of another death that was basically a case of we work how we want and don't dob. Again a cover up of silence in the workgroup. Basically I have seen a lot of negativ things from people not dobbing.

Sorry if this is a lecturing rant, that isn't my intention. I'm glad that you have a great workplace that gets perks. But I do also hope you are aware of the risks and don't let a bad culture develop.

 

[UP4014]

You may think I'm going over the top.

Um, yes.

The military has many issues and I would say the command structure contributes to many problems of cover up when people who have moved up the ranks are sociopaths/bullies, I would be hesitant to compare the military to private industry.

Say me sitting here finishing off my weeks work with a beer at my desk after having pub lunch with my boss.

 

[medhead]

Um, yes.

The military has many issues and I would say the command structure contributes to many problems of cover up when people who have moved up the ranks are sociopaths/bullies, I would be hesitant to compare the military to private industry.

Say me sitting here finishing off my weeks work with a beer at my desk after having pub lunch with my boss.

The military is an extreme example and of course there are issues with the command structure. But the underlying thing is that people have been pushed to kiln themselves and I'm sure the next level of command would not have wanted that to happen if they were aware. That is the comparison that at some level of command they are keeping the problem internal and not informing the next level so they can find a solution.

As for a boozy lunch that isn't really what I mean. More along the lines of people being drunk at work and going underground to operate heavy machinery or work around that machinery, with everyone being aware they are drunk but no one higher up being informed.

 

[milehighclub]

As a safety professional I have so many problems with this I don't know where to start. Are you seriously advocating a secret, vow of silence workgroup? That might be nice when you get little perks of the job on the side (ignoring perceptions that staff get into J seats in front of customers). But frankly that sort of attitude leads to bad stuff. Bullying and coughisation in the work place, all the way to ignoring safety (OHS not flying safety) rules that eventually leads to someone getting killed. It is an insidous and dangerous culture to have in a workplace.

Yes and no.

If she had done something that was unsafe:
a) crew probably would of seen it and reported it. Part of the crew culture is that we don't mind being reported on when safety is involved. Qantas has a policy that encourages crew to report and everyone in the whole crew community learns with internal publications highlighting safety hazards through open reporting. Naturally in very rare and serious cases of safety breaches, then there can be consequences. It is not a no blame policy.

But there is a difference between ignoring flirting and upgrading passengers which are harmless to jeopardizing the safety of passengers and crew. Can that still have an effect on your experience with that airline. Absolutely - but it didn't put you at risk. It comes down to poor customer service.

b) the OP would of without hesitation reported it, if something serious (safety wise) had occurred. This clearly isn't the case as the concern was in regards to the attention given to another passenger.

You may think I'm going over the top. But I have seen coughisation in the military. I have almost been blown up in the workplace because of someone ignoring basic safety rules and doing what the "workgroup" has always done.

I understand what your saying, and I fully agree in your example. There should never be complacency in the workplace. But in this particular situation I do think your comparing apples with oranges.

It was flirting. Nothing more. Whilst we are safety professionals without a doubt, we are allowed and encouraged to interact with passengers. Did she interact too much... that's not for me to say (despite my username )

Sorry if this is a lecturing rant, that isn't my intention. I'm glad that you have a great workplace that gets perks. But I do also hope you are aware of the risks and don't let a bad culture develop.

No need to apologize at all. Qantas, despite that cough you read in the paper has a great safety culture. That wouldn't be the case if it wasn't taken seriously by crew.

I'm sure the same applies at Virgin.

 

[JohnPhelan]

I think what you are doing is pretty low.

Crew stick together - it's what allows us to do things like sneaky upgrades or other little no no's that crew do and crew keep their mouths shut.

It's great that you passionate about your job and brand. I am as well along with other employees that post on here, but someone who is a manager obviously has a few years flying behind them would be well aware of crew culture - it's like a unwritten book the same I'm sure in many industries.

"Crew culture" is exactly the problem! If that behaviour is deemed OK by "crew culture", then the culture needs to change! DJ is very keen to transform itself into a very professional airline with a very professional culture. Good on this poster for being prepared to 'walk the walk' of the new image.

And shame on you for thinking that crew solidarity is more important than professionalism, high standards and customer expectations.

 

[Smackbum]

"Crew culture" is exactly the problem! If that behaviour is deemed OK by "crew culture", then the culture needs to change! DJ is very keen to transform itself into a very professional airline with a very professional culture. Good on this poster for being prepared to 'walk the walk' of the new image.

And shame on you for thinking that crew solidarity is more important than professionalism, high standards and customer expectations.

Completely agree.

Of course none of the rest of us armchair experts was there, and I suspect that most of us would have let the whole incident go through to the keeper

.... but ....

the poster was obviously concerned, the issue was aired publicly (eventually), and a representative of the Virgin group chimed in to make amends.

All pretty reasonable and fair and I think the matter can be safely dropped.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I still stand by my post.

Something as simple as "the good old evil eye" would "most probably" have sorted this out and nipped it in the butt to start with. Storm in a tea-cup now. Lets also not forget that someone could lose their job over it....(I've seen worse and done worse than this example anyway). Kiss, kiss, hug hug....pffft.

 

[milehighclub]

. Lets also not forget that someone could lose their job over it....(I've seen worse and done worse than this example anyway). Kiss, kiss, hug hug....pffft.

Exactly - and it would not be the flight attendant we are talking about, but more likely the poor manager who was trying to do something nice upgrading that person.

It's not just the behavior, it's all the other things that happened on the flight get bought to attention - all over a bit of flirting. Then senior management bring in a policy that punishes all the crew.

Again you only need to ask any Qantas flight attendant. 7000 crew got punished for 1 crew members action and yes it was because of dobbing. Safety was not an issue. As I mentioned before I 100% approve of reporting of non safe behavior.

 

[JohnK]

I think this sort of behaviour is totally inappropriate. Being found out should have been enough for her to stop. I would have said something to the CSM/supervisor.

I agree though it may not be worth sending a complaint and I am sure the people that matter at Virgin have read this thread and may mention it to senior management.

I think what you are doing is pretty low.

Crew stick together - it's what allows us to do things like sneaky upgrades or other little no no's that crew do and crew keep their mouths shut. I've seen only negative things from crew "dobbing" or reporting and that is usually to the disadvantage of everyone - just ask any Qantas flight attendant at the moment. It also is usually because the crew member wishes to climb the ladder.

I am surprised by this statement. Work together, stick together? If someone is doing something at work to make me or the team look bad then I will say something.

 

[medhead]

Yes and no.

If she had done something that was unsafe:
a) crew probably would of seen it and reported it. Part of the crew culture is that we don't mind being reported on when safety is involved. Qantas has a policy that encourages crew to report and everyone in the whole crew community learns with internal publications highlighting safety hazards through open reporting. Naturally in very rare and serious cases of safety breaches, then there can be consequences. It is not a no blame policy.

I'll get back in my box, then. I did totally forget to mention a no blame policy as being very important and also sometimes very hard for workplaces/management to understand and adopt properly. It is great to know that it is working at Qantas. (I probably assumed this would be the case, but positive confirmation is great)