Strategy to obtain US Amex

[maverick1]

Here is my rather disappointing experience with Chase for Sapphire Pref Application -

Applied last week of Feb, called couple of days later to check app status - agent requested to upload docs, which I did. Couple of days later automated voice status changed from 7-10 biz days to 2 wks. Having gone through few reddit threads felt comfortable and sort of confident of getting approved.

A week passed with no movement - called again early this wk, transferred to verification stating last status update is - issue with docs (provided itin and AU PP). They asked if I can provide additional id docs - offered bank and cc statement but agent didn't seem to be interested and said they will review and get back. Automated status went back to 7-10 biz days.

Called a day later got redirected to verification again this time instead of sending an OTP for verification the agent asked cpl of questions (car ownership/street address) and few mins later said they cannot proceed and I need to file a new application. They were reluctant to give any reason on further probing said my application has been "shutdown"

Not sure what I could have done different and what I should do next.
Really want to get a chase card as I'm holding back from getting to 5/24. I'm currently at 3/24.

 

[desafinado74]

Ok so an update on this. I went to LA last week for a few days. Pre-arranged appointments at Wells Fargo, Chase and BOFA to setup checking accounts.

Successfully opened WF and Chase checking accounts, just need to deposit money to avoid fees. WF required a $25 deposit there and then where as chase did not.

I needed to provide proof of US address (credit card statement or bank account statement), passport, drivers license and my SSN.

I actually never made it to the BOFA appointment unfortunately as something else got in the way. but overall pretty easy experience just takes a bit of time, id allow 1 hour per bank appointment. Hopefully not having the BOFA account wont hurt me too much down the line...

Side note I went to the LA Lakers V Clippers game in staples centre, and it was phenomenal..

Many thanks for reporting back !
Did the banks ask you why you were interested in opening bank accounts with them ?
And did you try and apply for credit cards when you were opening your checking accounts ?

 

[cathalm8]

Many thanks for reporting back !
Did the banks ask you why you were interested in opening bank accounts with them ?
And did you try and apply for credit cards when you were opening your checking accounts ?

They didn't even ask why I wanted the accounts.

Chase did ask if I wanted a credit card but I declined as I only have like 2 months credit history and from what I've read here you want 13 months credit history before trying for case cards..

 

[desafinado74]

They didn't even ask why I wanted the accounts.

Chase did ask if I wanted a credit card but I declined as I only have like 2 months credit history and from what I've read here you want 13 months credit history before trying for case cards..

Ah I see. That's a shame re short credit history. Coz I read that some people have successfully applied for Chase's Sapphire Preferred card etc at the branch with 12 months of US credit history. ( Plus the bankers have financial incentives to get people to sign up for credit cards)

 

[Finale]

I just got ITIN last month.
I am thinking applying for my 1st Amex Business Marriott Bevy, are they harder for approval vs personal card? Any suggestion or anything to look out for eg., send in documents etc.....

Currently DP, I have
Amex Platinum (opened 05/2023) via GT
Amex Hilton Surpass (opened 11/2023) via GT
Capital One (opened 02/2024) via ITIN

Thanks

I'm not sure if there is a business version of Bevy but even the personal version is cough unless you just want SUB and cancel. I would go for a basic business card. I only consider upgrading my basic to Bevy so I can get SUB from Chase.

When you apply using ITIN and don't get an automatic approval and they say they need more information from you and no info in the email, try use their application status link first as it might tell you what they need ie they want you to just confirm ITIN which could also be done online in my case (Bonvoy business). I called them anyway as I was impatient.

BoA are good for Alaska biz cards (put $5K in a checking account, wait 1 month, apply for 3 Alaska biz cards in 3 different browsers at the exact same time and voila), but not much else so I wouldn't worry. Main thing is to have one checking account that works.

I think the issue is it's not easy for most of us here due to ITIN. I think BoA doesn't accept it online. I heard some people were successful applying on the phone. Anybody tried?

 

[Franko Costa]

I assume there is nothing official, but if there a level of transfer AU to US MR points that would attract too much unwanted attention? I will be transferring about 5m AU points next month. Last time I think I did 2m

 

[prozac]

I assume there is nothing official, but if there a level of transfer AU to US MR points that would attract too much unwanted attention? I will be transferring about 5m AU points next month. Last time I think I did 2m

Somehow I missed the reason for doing this. What is the benefit @dein_gesicht ?

 

[levelnine]

Somehow I missed the reason for doing this. What is the benefit @dein_gesicht ?

US MR transfer 1:1. AU MR transfer 2:1 or even 3:1.

 

[cathalm8]

Maybe I should have chanced my arm with applying for a chase card when they asked me in branch but I just assumed id have no chance with only 2-3 months credit history..

Ah I see. That's a shame re short credit history. Coz I read that some people have successfully applied for Chase's Sapphire Preferred card etc at the branch with 12 months of US credit history. ( Plus the bankers have financial incentives to get people to sign up for credit cards)

 

[prozac]

US MR transfer 1:1. AU MR transfer 2:1 or even 3:1.

Exceptional. Thank you @levelnine

 

[Grrr]

All US cards appear to charge a hidden spread of about 1% on top of any published foreign transaction fees.

When combined with the spread/fees you lose on transferring money from AUD to USD, you need to be getting considerable benefits out of the card to warrant putting spend on a US card.

For me, it is worth it because I get, on average, about a 15% return on spend (after all these foreign exchange losses)

Any chance you could break down the calcs for your return ?

I’m in the process of doing the groundwork for my first GT, with the aim of getting Aus MR to US MR for Aeroplan…

Was thinking of getting the Green and using it in Aus (and overseas when traveling) but if the losses after conversion make it not feasible for Aus spend, perhaps I should stick with a fee free US Amex ?

 

[levelnine]

Any chance you could break down the calcs for your return ?

I’m in the process of doing the groundwork for my first GT, with the aim of getting Aus MR to US MR for Aeroplan…

Was thinking of getting the Green and using it in Aus (and overseas when traveling) but if the losses after conversion make it not feasible for Aus spend, perhaps I should stick with a fee free US Amex ?

You have to do it on a card by card, bonus by bonus basis.

But to give you an example, I'm currently working on the sign-up bonus for a Chase Ink Preferred: 100K UR + 40K UR referral after $USD8K spend in 3 months with $USD95 annual fee.

Assuming 1% currency loss on the $8K, the cost is $USD175 (80+95) for 140K UR.

140K UR can be cashed out at USD 1c per point.

After $8K spend, therefore, I'm getting, at minimum, a return of 15% return on spend (1400-175 / 8000).

Obviously you get more if you redeem those points for premium cabin travel where they're worth more than 1c per point.

I don't put non-bonused spend on US cards — the return is generally too low for it to be worth it for me. I'm purely a bonus chaser. Others will take different views.

 

[Voele]

You have to do it on a card by card, bonus by bonus basis.

But to give you an example, I'm currently working on the sign-up bonus for a Chase Ink Preferred: 100K UR + 40K UR referral after $USD8K spend in 3 months with $USD95 annual fee.

Assuming 1% currency loss on the $8K, the cost is $USD175 (80+95) for 140K UR.

140K UR can be cashed out at USD 1c per point.

After $8K spend, therefore, I'm getting, at minimum, a return of 15% return on spend (1400-175 / 8000).

Obviously you get more if you redeem those points for premium cabin travel where they're worth more than 1c per point.

I don't put non-bonused spend on US cards — the return is generally too low for it to be worth it for me. I'm purely a bonus chaser. Others will take different views.

Interesting post, the 1% spread info is super helpful, been looking for that for a while. If my calculations are correct, that means that AU spend on the green in 3x bonus categories would equal ~US$0.0235 per extra mile you earn when compared to the AU plat rate of 2.25 mile/aud and assuming a 0.65x currency conversion rate.

So example:
Assumptions, Amex spread 1%, exchange rate 0.65, Wise spread 0.5%

Spend 1000 AUD on AU plat yields 2250 AU MR or 1462 US MR (2250 *0.65).
Spend 1000 AUD on US Green in bonus category yields 1960 US MR (1000 * (0.65 + 0.01 Amex spread) * 3) and costs AUD 1018.69 ( (1000 * (0.65 + 0.01)) * ((1/0.65) + 0.005)).
So your 498 US MR bonus points would cost AU$0.0375 or US$0.0235 each ($18.69 / 498)

If you run same calculations for dining spend on the gold card you get to about US$0.0107 per extra point.

Am I missing something? Looks like the bonus points on the green are barely worth it then.

 

[Franko Costa]

You have to do it on a card by card, bonus by bonus basis.

But to give you an example, I'm currently working on the sign-up bonus for a Chase Ink Preferred: 100K UR + 40K UR referral after $USD8K spend in 3 months with $USD95 annual fee.

Assuming 1% currency loss on the $8K, the cost is $USD175 (80+95) for 140K UR.

140K UR can be cashed out at USD 1c per point.

After $8K spend, therefore, I'm getting, at minimum, a return of 15% return on spend (1400-175 / 8000).

Obviously you get more if you redeem those points for premium cabin travel where they're worth more than 1c per point.

I don't put non-bonused spend on US cards — the return is generally too low for it to be worth it for me. I'm purely a bonus chaser. Others will take different views.

Interesting that you used those calcs. I think of it a little bit differently about how much each point is costing be.

So it would cost US$0.00125 per point which is fantastic and why everyone loves chase (ex those people who hardcore MS spend).

Obviously, this analysis excludes any fees you incur getting the SUB and opportunity cost. At this rate it is the best there is. I'm lucky in that i am not limited by spend but more SUB opportunities

 

[levelnine]

Am I missing something? Looks like the bonus points on the green are barely worth it then.

If you are doing regular, non-bonused spend, I think the best way to go is put everything on an AU Amex Plat and convert to US MR. It is very hard to beat the AU Amex Plat rate once you take into account currency conversion fees.

Interesting that you used those calcs. I think of it a little bit differently about how much each point is costing be.

So it would cost US$0.00125 per point which is fantastic and why everyone loves chase (ex those people who hardcore MS spend).

Obviously, this analysis excludes any fees you incur getting the SUB and opportunity cost. At this rate it is the best there is. I'm lucky in that i am not limited by spend but more SUB opportunities

I also do a calculation of how much each point costs me. Indeed, I think that's the more important metric on some SUBs with high annual fees/spend requirements because I refuse to pay more than 0.5c/pt for points when there are so many SUBs out there.

I should have added some additional caveats:
1. As you note, a lot depends on your level of spend. For example, if you are spending $1mil pa, what you can earn on non-bonused spend is way more important than bonuses because you'll never be able to open enough cards to put it all towards bonuses.
2. It also depends a little on how hard you're willing to churn. I'm currently working on sign-up bonuses for 15 different cards (across two persons and cards in both Australia & the US).
3. I'm only talking about AUD spend. For any USD spend, obviously the maths tilts heavily in favour of the US cards.

 

[Grrr]

If you are doing regular, non-bonused spend, I think the best way to go is put everything on an AU Amex Plat and convert to US MR. It is very hard to beat the AU Amex Plat rate once you take into account currency conversion fees.

Thank you for your above posts (and everyone's follow ups !) - really helpful

I suspect my best way forward is to get a fee free US Amex for myself and the wife

 

[Franko Costa]

Thank you for your above posts (and everyone's follow ups !) - really helpful

I suspect my best way forward is to get a fee free US Amex for myself and the wife

I would get any card with best SUB and downgrade to a low fee or free card that allows MR

Post automatically merged: Mar 7, 2024

If you are doing regular, non-bonused spend, I think the best way to go is put everything on an AU Amex Plat and convert to US MR. It is very hard to beat the AU Amex Plat rate once you take into account currency conversion fees.



I also do a calculation of how much each point costs me. Indeed, I think that's the more important metric on some SUBs with high annual fees/spend requirements because I refuse to pay more than 0.5c/pt for points when there are so many SUBs out there.

I should have added some additional caveats:
1. As you note, a lot depends on your level of spend. For example, if you are spending $1mil pa, what you can earn on non-bonused spend is way more important than bonuses because you'll never be able to open enough cards to put it all towards bonuses.
2. It also depends a little on how hard you're willing to churn. I'm currently working on sign-up bonuses for 15 different cards (across two persons and cards in both Australia & the US).
3. I'm only talking about AUD spend. For any USD spend, obviously the maths tilts heavily in favour of the US cards.

As usual, we will all be at level eight ( so you're a level above us )

 

[levelnine]

As usual, we will all be at level eight ( so you're a level above us )

I have to work this hard on churning because I have a fairly average level of organic spend. If I could earn several million miles per year through regular spend, I'd probably put it all on an AU Amex Plat, convert to US MR and go find some other hobby lol.

 

[levelnine]

A fun little story about how hard some people in the US manufacture spend.

There was a wave of Amex shut downs this week due to people abusing the authorised user bonus offers (you could call in to Amex to add 99 authorised users at a time to a single business card, each with their own mini sign-up bonus) and cycling a lot of money through this gift card app called Fluz.

One person said they had 1800 authorised user cards (!!!!!) and were pushing $3-4 million per month of manufactured spend through Amex lol.

 

[Franko Costa]

A fun little story about how hard some people in the US manufacture spend.

There was a wave of Amex shut downs this week due to people abusing the authorised user bonus offers (you could call in to Amex to add 99 authorised users at a time to a single business card, each with their own mini sign-up bonus) and cycling a lot of money through this gift card app called Fluz.

One person said they had 1800 authorised user cards (!!!!!) and were pushing $3-4 million per month of manufactured spend through Amex lol.

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Yes I read about this. People who used Fluz and 99 AU cards have been SD. I do some MS, but it's only like 60k per month. I do it all in Australia as I don't trust the BG or GC resellers.

I'm on a discord and slack channel where they are all discussing the SDs