Stretching the B737 fleet

[Must...Fly!]

I don’t doubt they could make KNX. The question is what kind of payload are they carrying? We could take full tanks from BNE to PER all the time but at what cost? The potential to leave pax and/or their bags behind? So you’ve hit it on the head, not economical or sensible.

Be interesting to see what they replace the F100 with.

Thanks - great post & info as always.

KNX was always marginal but they could make it on most days. Many of the F100 flights take full tanks out of Perth (or very close to it) to minimise the chance of having to take fuel in the regional ports, particularly KNX. Sometimes a tech stop would be required on the way back at PHE/KTA/ZNE to minimise fuel taken further north. Depends on the weather too, of course - if it was exceedingly hot, a tech stop would be required on the way back for a drink. The standard F100s can make KNX but tech stop or restriction most of the time, as far as I can recall. Fuel & hold was a pretty regular request, just to be sure not to be overweight & load as much fuel as possible.

As for your last point - this is the question that I'm interested in and no clear/obvious choice seems to have materialised...there are a few years til it is required, but the capital is not going to be easy to find.

 

[Bagpuss]

Thanks - great post & info as always.

KNX was always marginal but they could make it on most days.

I used to fly PER <> KNX quite a lot. Not so much any more.

Never had an issue going to KNX, even had a go-around once on arrival. That was terrifying!

On the KNX return once we diverted to ZNE to refuel and once they advised they may need to but didn’t.

I’ve flown once on the AirNorth E170 KNX > PER and departure was delayed (or the reason they used) due to temperatures etc. so obviously there’s potentially a number of factors on play.

With the KNX service, I don’t know what all the F100 differences are or could be, but it seems they mainly always use the same aircraft for KNX ... VH-FSQ, VH-FNR, VH-FNY seem to be the workhorses. I was on VH-FNT (pretty sure) and it has an extra emergency exit at the rear left hand side, though it’s permanently locked.

Also in regards to KNX loads, I’ve been on it near empty and full to the max. Sometimes they will have 2 FA’s due to low loads one way or the other, so you get the safety demo twice as they have the FA at the front, then in the middle. My most KNX > PER trip was full and didn’t need a refuel. That said if you see all the checked in baggage at KNX sometimes it’s a huge amount.

Argle (charter service for diamond mine) is pretty close by so could have the same issues as KNX.

 

[Bagpuss]

As for your last point - this is the question that I'm interested in and no clear/obvious choice seems to have materialised...there are a few years til it is required, but the capital is not going to be easy to find.

I’m pretty sure Alliance would take on the F100’s and they do very well in this marketplace. Pretty sure all the F100’s are fully owned, if any are leased it’s only 1 or 2. So there is some capital there.

I’d imagine they will get down the leasing costs of the Tiger A320 and use them for VARA. Though in my opinion they probably don’t need the seat capacity, so they could go more fixed fleet using A320s and use the F100s less to preserve them.

Though Virgin’s situation isn’t unique as Qantas is in the same boat with F100’s and B717’s ... I think the Qantas F100 average age is higher than VARA. There’s also Alliance too (hence why the want as many airframes under their own ship as possible) plus also not F100s REX’s fleet is pretty old.

The market to eye off I would expect is what Delta have exiting their fleet and if anything is suitable.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Argle (charter service for diamond mine) is pretty close by so could have the same issues as KNX.

I honestly can't remember which are the HGW F100s, but pretty sure all you listed are HGW. The fleet is a mix of frames built for various airlines at time of manufacture, so there are subtle differences.

GYL has similar issues as KNX but often not as bad, as it was never as heavy, as far as I recall (the FIFO crew in/out of the mine don't take much baggage). RPT ops always has more

 

[Bagpuss]

From 17 December the majority of Brisbane <> Newcastle flights are being operated by Alliance Alliance for Virgin Australia using F100's.
Guess this is a sign of better B737 utilisation / lack of aircraft.

 

[Saab34]

Seems to be more A330 flying around the east coast triangle of late. A330 on the MEL-SYD-BNE-MEL run tonight again.

 

[Saab34]

Next Tiger one painted and flying to Melbourne today.

VH-YVA (BSI interior)

 

[pauly7]

Next Tiger one painted and flying to Melbourne today.

VH-YVA (BSI interior)

The Tigger experiment continues

Financial results were horrifying I wonder what the new CEO’s strategy will be for them.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Next Tiger one painted and flying to Melbourne today.

VH-YVA (BSI interior)

Dear dear, a BSI 738 going to TT while the original DJ aircraft still float around in mainline....where are the priorities...probably in giving away more gold memberships to anyone buying a ticket.

Also this aircraft has a history of being registered in Japan... Currently to: "IZAK CO., LTD. 1181 Ooaza Daikaijinomura Uozu-shi Toyama-ken 930-0082 Japan"

For the record I've nothing against the older frames. VA were an LCC in the DJ days. They spent hundreds of millions refreshing in to a so-called "new world carrier" but really are just the same as Qantas. Now they are unhappy it's time to spend a few (ok more than a few) million more to hedge the bet both ways...

 

[hossein_au]

Dear dear, a BSI 738 going to TT while the original DJ aircraft still float around in mainline....where are the priorities...probably in giving away more gold memberships to anyone buying a ticket...

Exactly what Qantas did with their first batch of 787s (all went to Jet*).

I am on the same page as you; the only possible explanation I can think of for giving the more modern frames to the LCC subsidiary is to improve the 'look' of the said subsidiary on (financial) reports. This, in turn, earns kudos to the CEO and the board for their 'foresight' for having started or managing the said LCC. This will buys them time to fix the bigger financial/performance issues with the legacy part of the business.

 

[Must...Fly!]

What issues do VA have in the legacy side? They are all fundamental business issues, it's a relatively young airline. The only industrial issues of late have been with the LCC subsidiary they are pumping newer aircraft in to.

Not saying you are wrong at all but that's my first reaction.

 

[hossein_au]

What issues do VA have in the legacy side? They are all fundamental business issues, it's a relatively young airline. The only industrial issues of late have been with the LCC subsidiary they are pumping newer aircraft in to.

Not saying you are wrong at all but that's my first reaction.

I haven't actually been analysing their business; all I know is that they've been losing money for the past few years (back to back). If I recall correctly, the only part of the business making money is their frequent flyer and TT is one of the worst (if not the worst) part of the business. I vaguely recall they are bleeding badly in their HKG and LAX routes. And with the price war with QF and CX, I am not sure if this will get much better in the short term.

Again, I have not been paying close attention, so this is just conjecture on my part.

 

[brettd]

For VARA (and Qantaslink to a smaller extent), not all the F100's could be replaced by A320's, there are a few runways around (i.e. PBO and quite a few of the charter sites) that can only take a F100 and not an A320.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

Exactly what Qantas did with their first batch of 787s (all went to Jet*).

Except those were new-build 787s while this 737 has been removed from mainline. Then the TT 320 that it's replacing will go to VARA, probably to operate on behalf of VA because as brettd says an A320 is not a like-for-like F100 replacement.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Except those were new-build 787s while this 737 has been removed from mainline. Then the TT 320 that it's replacing will go to VARA, probably to operate on behalf of VA because as brettd says an A320 is not a like-for-like F100 replacement.

And in the end if that does happen you are asking passengers to pay a premium to travel on aircraft which are older and have less features and comforts for passengers.

Where is the sense.

 

[AIRwin]

And in the end if that does happen you are asking passengers to pay a premium to travel on aircraft which are older and have less features and comforts for passengers.

Do the older aircraft have 29 rows (instead of 30 in the newer fleet) and so have slightly more legroom?

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

Where is the sense.

Long gone. And the eggs are too far scrambled now - it's going to be an expensive and messy omelette.

What will be interesting is now TT only have new A320s left on long term lease, what will they do with them when/if the next VA 737s arrive? You really shouldn't send an expensive, leased, 180 seat aircraft to WA to carry 100 people once a day Monday-Friday so VARA is unlikely. I'd say accept defeat and run a mixed fleet at TT but TBH I wouldn't be surprised to see them parked; maybe VA can get a bulk discount if they park them at the same airport where all their other leased aircraft sit idle

 

[TomVexille]

Long gone. And the eggs are too far scrambled now - it's going to be an expensive and messy omelette.

What will be interesting is now TT only have new A320s left on long term lease, what will they do with them when/if the next VA 737s arrive? You really shouldn't send an expensive, leased, 180 seat aircraft to WA to carry 100 people once a day Monday-Friday so VARA is unlikely. I'd say accept defeat and run a mixed fleet at TT but TBH I wouldn't be surprised to see them parked; maybe VA can get a bulk discount if they park them at the same airport where all their other leased aircraft sit idle

VARA run the odd A320 on mainline routes

 

[737NG]

As of November, 1 737 MAX per month is being delivered every month for the next 3.5 years.

 

[RickyT84]

I think its safe to assume the remaining aircrafts to be transferred would come from the older VO* or VU* series as a number of these aircrafts do not have wifi equipment fitted.

The remaining Y* series (except for YVA which was transferred to TT) features wifi service.