Stuck overseas, how to obtain the four squiggles during COVID?

[avlawyer82]

But consider it from the other angle... if I'm a shareholder with BA (or Lufthansa or anyone of the other airline groups), or a government providing support to my national airline... why am I going to let foreign airlines take money simply to allow their members access to some lounge? Unlikely to happen.

The UK may be looking to establish trade agreements, but they also work in reverse. If the UK was to allow every airline in the world to fly ex UK to anywhere else, other countries would take reciprocal measures. Not something BA/VS would want. Nor would Qantas like to be forced into having open competition from NZ/SQ/CX/JL in the Aussie domestic market.

Very true @MEL_Traveller. The issue would move from whether it was technically or legally feasible to in fact whether it was something that would be economically, politically, or commercially desirable. There would be significant arguments going back and forth; from investors, institutional and governmental stakeholders, competition and protectionism issues (particularly in domestic markets or in markets where margins are already tight and the loss of consumer traffic/cost has viability concerns) to the ultimate consumer benefit and what cost/price an organisation is willing to pay to match it.

I suspect the risk appetite is low at present for any significant changes to the current arrangements, particularly with demand so weak and given the wide range of fiscal and commercial challenges in the sector at present.

I sit and ponder further....

 

[dajop]

Regarding the alliance approval to wave the squiggles BA and MH also has the “squiggle” requirement, but I couldn’t immediately find mention of it for AA and CX, unless buried in fine print.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Regarding the alliance approval to wave the squiggles BA and MH also has the “squiggle” requirement, but I couldn’t immediately find mention of it for AA and CX, unless buried in fine print.

AA used to have it but I think they ditched it in 2017?

 

[avlawyer82]

Regarding the alliance approval to wave the squiggles BA and MH also has the “squiggle” requirement, but I couldn’t immediately find mention of it for AA and CX, unless buried in fine print.

I was guided to this post from ET in July 2020 (see the ET Article ) wherein the reporting was from the former manager of the Enrich Frequent Flyer Program at Malaysia Airlines (Mr Ross-Smith) that the minimum segment requirement with your home carrier is a OW one, but that nothing from QF on the record (though might be under consideration???)

 

[snabbu]

I was guided to this post from ET in July 2020 (see the ET Article ) wherein the reporting was from the former manager of the Enrich Frequent Flyer Program at Malaysia Airlines (Mr Ross-Smith) that the minimum segment requirement with your home carrier is a OW one, but that nothing from QF on the record (though might be under consideration???)

According to that article AJ could still possibly put a One World motion forward to null the squiggle rule during this pandemic. Plus it seems QF are well aware of the issue for overseas based flyers as they had no official comment to the question. That's a positive sign.

When asked whether the ‘four flight’ rule would be amended to count journeys taken with partners such as British Airways, Qantas declined to comment on-record.

Interesting to know its not specifically a QF rule but a One World mandate.

 

[avlawyer82]

According to that article AJ could still possibly put a One World motion forward to null the squiggle rule during this pandemic. Plus it seems QF are well aware of the issue for overseas based flyers as they had no official comment to the question. That's a positive sign.

Is there a financial concern here which might make the moving of a motion unattractive? I’m not sure what the numbers of QFF are who are UK/EU based but might that waiver risk increasing QFs costs in the short term contrary to their immediate goals to reduce costs to the bare minimum?

E.g. a waiving of this restriction to allow for any OW carrier flights to count increases substantially the numbers of retains/tier attains in a market that has a larger “domestic/intra EU one” thereby increasing the costs to QF of its members accessing a wider range of AA/BA/IB/FY lounges with the UK and Europe?

[Edit: I’m more persuaded that financial/cost risks are more pressing and more influential given today’s announcement about QF ending their 30 year partnership with the Wallabies etc].

In normal times those costs could be offset by (a) reciprocal charges for access for EU members from EU/UK OW programs in accessing Australian lounges in Asia and the domestic QF Club and Business/International lounges (b) access to the QF lounge in T3 for those very same guests as well as the paid access scheme for the London lounge and (c) normal commercial revenue earn from operations.

With travel to Australia restricted, T3 LHR closed and no restart date for international services, might that put QF at a distinct financial disadvantage that perhaps isn’t as significant or as costly as those for the European carrier members in OW?

In light of the article referenced above, it’s clear it is on the radar but given the continuing silence I can only assume that there still isn’t a consensus from the network members.

 

[prozac]

HI fellow AFFs

It has been a topic that I've been thinking about ...

1. The easiest solution - ...

2. The second could be to allow ...

3. A third option ...

4. A fourth option ...

5. Finally, ...
... I'd be very eager to hear the news.

Stop dreaming, never going to happen. AJ missed out on his significant bonuses this year so everyone is going to have to tighten their belts.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

......

but re status etc.. TTR has it.. QF will keep throwing bones to keep status flyers at relatively little cost to them while there's such a messed up world situation. Frankly I would put it at the bottom of the list of things to worry about.

One way or another you'll either retain or be in a situation next year or 2022 where you can make the most of whatever the landscape is in terms of travel, airlines, loyalty programs and the like.

....

I'd go further and say - forget about collecting any type of airline points with credit cards.
Think about the value of points coming out of this and the likelihood of getting value.
There's only two scenarios:

1) Airfares are cheap to stimulate demand, which case you're better off paying cash for a ticket than using points (unless points costs are reduced, but why would airlines do that with the increasing liabilities piling up?)
2) Airlines will be astronomical to reflect strong demand, which case, points are useless as no sets available for redemption.

All this while borders are closed -- folks continue to clock up credit card points into the airline programs. More points........ no flight redemption options......when the networks come back online - it won't be 2019 again with 40 flights/day between SYD/MEL. Less capacity...... more points in existence than ever before...... prices either very low or very high. For 99% of frequent flyers - those points will be worthless for use on flights. Combine that with everyone having status extended and no need to earn status credits. Why bother with loyalty toward an airline?

Definitely yes for those based in Australia. High value customers in core markets are essential to coming out the other side of this. Customers in non-core markets, maybe but less assured will be looked after.

Remember the QR status match a few months back? 100% deliberate and strategic, but maybe not for the reasons previously thought.
Watch for a flurry of smart status matching aimed directly at Qantas frequent flyers when borders open up again. Think about which airlines are flying internationally into Australia right now and why they're doing it. Why did Qatar start services to BNE? Why are airlines re-signing co-brand agreements with banks now? What terms are they giving up to card schemes that might impact competitors? What leverage are card issuers maximizing as airlines mortgage their loyalty programs?

Regarding the alliance approval to wave the squiggles BA and MH also has the “squiggle” requirement, but I couldn’t immediately find mention of it for AA and CX, unless buried in fine print.

It's a requirement for all oneworld carriers to adhere to for a percentage of their database. While there are exceptions in updated policies - it's still up to individual airlines to enforce. Or, perhaps a more accurate way to state it - it's up to airlines to not get caught by oneworld.

I was guided to this post from ET in July 2020 (see the ET Article ) wherein the reporting was from the former manager of the Enrich Frequent Flyer Program at Malaysia Airlines (Mr Ross-Smith) that the minimum segment requirement with your home carrier is a OW one, but that nothing from QF on the record (though might be under consideration???)

Bit higher than a manager I believe

 

[dajop]

I was guided to this post from ET in July 2020 (see the ET Article ) wherein the reporting was from the former manager of the Enrich Frequent Flyer Program at Malaysia Airlines (Mr Ross-Smith) that the minimum segment requirement with your home carrier is a OW one, but that nothing from QF on the record (though might be under consideration???)

OK, must be a couple of exceptions then - perhaps CX and AA. The other reason why this policy is in place, might relate to AA ... they also want to discourage domestic travellers from leveraging partner programs to provide "backdoor" access to lounges. AA status members only have lounge access when on an international itinerary. Domestic (US) only flights on AA don't provide access, unless you hold status with a partner airline.

 

[Mattg]

Serious suggestion for the OP - are you able to book Air Tahiti Nui flights from LAX to PPT on a QF flight number? You should be able to earn the ~ if on the QF number. If you happen to have Points Club membership, you can even book this as an award using Qantas points on the QF flight number.

 

[snabbu]

Serious suggestion for the OP - are you able to book Air Tahiti Nui flights from LAX to PPT on a QF flight number? You should be able to earn the ~ if on the QF number. If you happen to have Points Club membership, you can even book this as an award using Qantas points on the QF flight number.

Possibly, however the 14 day quarantine kills any opportunity for a quick trip home to see friends/relatives then get back to US for work commitments.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Possibly, however the 14 day quarantine kills any opportunity for a quick trip home so see friends/relatives then get back to US for work commitments.

Indeed, that 14 day "medi hotel quarantine" does have to be considered.

 

[AIRwin]

Qantas extends current status Until at least March 2021

Did anyone else get the email?

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au