Syd- LHR with a baby

[Katie]

A thought - do Malaysian have basinettes in J? A friend flew J on UA 8 years ago with her 3mth old & basically paid $1000 for him to stay in her lap the whole way (J on points upgrade, no basinette & had to pay 1/10 of adul J fare for infant).

 

[ozbeachbabe]

A thought - do Malaysian have basinettes in J? A friend flew J on UA 8 years ago with her 3mth old & basically paid $1000 for him to stay in her lap the whole way (J on points upgrade, no basinette & had to pay 1/10 of adul J fare for infant).

Once you have made the reservation on MH ring up res right away to pre-allocate your seat in front of the bassinet - that's if they have one.

The transit hotel stopover is a good idea. I'm assuming it's an overnight stay given that both the Oz to KUL & KUL/LHR are day flights. Once upon a time MH also included return limo transfers from your home to the airport - not sure whether this is still in effect.

I think half the battle with jet lag is trying to sleep on planes on overnight flights. To be able to sleep horizontally in a proper hotel bed when it's your normal bedtime is a huge plus. Even better the day flight to LHR arriving in the evening so you can pretty much chill out for a couple of hours then go to bed again.

 

[NM]

One comment I will make on this subject:

In my experience, very young children adapt/adjust to changes in timezones much more easily than adults. So plan the journey to minimise jetlag effects of the parents rather than of the child.

+1 Phenergan (with approval from your family physician and pre-trip testing for any adverse affects as a small percentage of young children can react to Phenergan as a stimulant rather than the more common effect of an antihistamine to relax and induce sleep).

 

[Batesy]

A thought - do Malaysian have basinettes in J? A friend flew J on UA 8 years ago with her 3mth old & basically paid $1000 for him to stay in her lap the whole way (J on points upgrade, no basinette & had to pay 1/10 of adul J fare for infant).

Check seatguru.com for locations of bassinet on various models of aircraft.
definitely have them on upper deck 747 in J.

 

[QF WP]

In my experience, very young children adapt/adjust to changes in timezones much more easily than adults. So plan the journey to minimise jetlag effects of the parents rather than of the child.

Yes, you've had experience in both children and flying with children

 

[jamesatfish]

Check seatguru.com for locations of bassinet on various models of aircraft.
definitely have them on upper deck 747 in J.

I've actually been looking for bassinet locations on SeatGuru (and EF, and the airlines own websites), but can't find any seat maps showing bassinet locations on anything other than the Qantas seat maps available directly from Qantas.com.

Can anyone point me to seat maps showing bassinet locations for BA and AA?

 

[docjames]

I've actually been looking for bassinet locations on SeatGuru (and EF, and the airlines own websites), but can't find any seat maps showing bassinet locations on anything other than the Qantas seat maps available directly from Qantas.com.

Can anyone point me to seat maps showing bassinet locations for BA and AA?

You might need to specify aircraft model (presume 744 for BA? What about AA?).

If it helps at all, they tend to be the bulkhead seats if you need a rough guide.

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/seatpl/public/en_au

AA 777
http://www.americanairlines.com.au/intl/au/travelInformation/777.jsp

 

[jamesatfish]

You might need to specify aircraft model (presume 744 for BA? What about AA?).

If it helps at all, they tend to be the bulkhead seats if you need a rough guide.

British Airways - Seat maps

AA 777
Boeing 777

Sorry - was being a bit vague so as to get a '...helps those who help themselves' answer rather than asking someone to look it up for me - but greatly appreciate the answer!

Specifically looking for BA 777 and 747-400, and AA 767-200, all in F. I'm just sanity-checking the allocations that Qantas have provided for me - I have been able to check the QF 744 and 388 allocations, but not the other two airlines.

I've just found the AA 762 https://www.americanairlines.com.au/i18n/aboutUs/ourPlanes/boeing767200DomInter.jsp - just need the two BA maps now.

 

[Batesy]

Sorry - was being a bit vague so as to get a '...helps those who help themselves' answer rather than asking someone to look it up for me - but greatly appreciate the answer!

Specifically looking for BA 777 and 747-400, and AA 767-200, all in F. I'm just sanity-checking the allocations that Qantas have provided for me - I have been able to check the QF 744 and 388 allocations, but not the other two airlines.

I've just found the AA 762 https://www.americanairlines.com.au/i18n/aboutUs/ourPlanes/boeing767200DomInter.jsp - just need the two BA maps now.

On SeatGuru just hover your mouse over the bulkhead seats, or any seat and the seat description will appear.

 

[medhead]

You then mention car travel, completely different to flying so again please don't denigrate something that was intended in good faith but was a little misguided. As someone who has done a couple of around the worlds with a sub two year old I can tell you the phenergan made a huge difference the second time around.

Yes your right of cause car travel is completely different. For a start the child is strapped in, they can't walk around they can't use the toilet, they can't be held by mother while being feed. I was also referring to multiple car trips that I've taken that are of similar length. I regularly drove 4 to 5 hours without stopping. And sometime longer, in fact one trip SYD-BNE I stopped in Tamworth for fuel - only, of course from Ipswich to BNe the 18 months old was a bit upset. So, yes, completely different, much harder.

BTW I have also flown to europe return with an 5 and 2 year old. Some of my comments were also based on that experience.

For our non driving travel (flying) we always tried to maintain their routine. So if that meant they were due to feed as we boarded the aircraft and they were "asking" for food we feed them. Second daughter we also feed on take off every time. She must have had ear problems.

For a baby on a long haul flight this is impossible - noise changes, not the same sleeping arrangements, light/dark/light/dark changes, no play areas...

Perhaps you misread my comments that you quoted. I was talking about flying and even long haul flying. We, well SWMBO certainly managed to maintain routine. Just lucky I guess - good wife and good children.

Ohh and 5 month olds don't play in a play area, they sleep, eat or ****

 

[11sjw]

Yes your right of cause car travel is completely different. For a start the child is strapped in, they can't walk around they can't use the toilet, they can't be held by mother while being feed. I was also referring to multiple car trips that I've taken that are of similar length. I regularly drove 4 to 5 hours without stopping. And sometime longer, in fact one trip SYD-BNE I stopped in Tamworth for fuel - only, of course from Ipswich to BNe the 18 months old was a bit upset. So, yes, completely different, much harder.

BTW I have also flown to europe return with an 5 and 2 year old. Some of my comments were also based on that experience.

For starters there is relatively little pressure changes encountered (takes a decent mountain). This is one of the main causes for problems in infants. Secondly you can pretty well stop whenever you like to give the kids or yourself a break. Thirdly they're not breathing recycled air constantly (unless you run aircon all the way) so they don't have issues with germs either.

I don't actually care what your experiences were based upon as it doesn't make my point any less valid, a fac6t backed up by others agreeing. You haven't needed to use it, well good luck to you. We have and it made it possible for all of us to get some sleep. I'm not saying you're wrong I'm asking that you not denigrate a suggestion given in good faith.

 

[medhead]

For starters there is relatively little pressure changes encountered (takes a decent mountain). This is one of the main causes for problems in infants. Secondly you can pretty well stop whenever you like to give the kids or yourself a break. Thirdly they're not breathing recycled air constantly (unless you run aircon all the way) so they don't have issues with germs either.

I don't actually care what your experiences were based upon as it doesn't make my point any less valid, a fac6t backed up by others agreeing. You haven't needed to use it, well good luck to you. We have and it made it possible for all of us to get some sleep. I'm not saying you're wrong I'm asking that you not denigrate a suggestion given in good faith.

My post is not trying to make your point invalid. My point is consider your child, in the case of this thread 5 month old baby, as a person. Treat them as a person and cater to their needs. Don't treat them as an object to pump full of drugs. This is based on sitting behind parents of a baby who gave absolutely no consideration to the comfort and care of the child in any obvious way. And that made my flight hell.

I listed a number of techniques that my family successfully employed while flying and also while in situations very similar to flying - child locked up in a confided space of extended periods of time not able to move around much. Perhaps you missed that, and instead denigrated the suggestion that car travel could in anyway be similar to flying. But your "not saying I'm wrong"

As for your points: for long haul the pressure changes are a relatively short part of the flight and as I (and others) suggested give them a bottle to fix that problem.

Secondly, I didn't stop, my wife and I employed techniques with our children in long distance car trips and did not stop, whether we could have stopped is irrelevant. Of course, I'm not sure how stopping in the middle of the Hay Plain, or an hour out of Woomera, is going to be much better anyway. Those same techniques, as I listed in my post, were also employed while flying to good effect.

Thirdly, refer to locations mentioned in secondly, yes, of course, the A/C was on.

As for denigrating your suggestion, you admitted yourself that it is not appropriate for a baby. That is what makes your point invalid. And I didn't see many people agree with giving drugs to a 5 month old.

 

[11sjw]

My post is not trying to make your point invalid. My point is consider your child, in the case of this thread 5 month old baby, as a person. Treat them as a person and cater to their needs. Don't treat them as an object to pump full of drugs. This is based on sitting behind parents of a baby who gave absolutely no consideration to the comfort and care of the child in any obvious way. And that made my flight hell.

I listed a number of techniques that my family successfully employed while flying and also while in situations very similar to flying - child locked up in a confided space of extended periods of time not able to move around much. Perhaps you missed that, and instead denigrated the suggestion that car travel could in anyway be similar to flying. But your "not saying I'm wrong"

As for your points: for long haul the pressure changes are a relatively short part of the flight and as I (and others) suggested give them a bottle to fix that problem.

Secondly, I didn't stop, my wife and I employed techniques with our children in long distance car trips and did not stop, whether we could have stopped is irrelevant. Of course, I'm not sure how stopping in the middle of the Hay Plain, or an hour out of Woomera, is going to be much better anyway. Those same techniques, as I listed in my post, were also employed while flying to good effect.

Thirdly, refer to locations mentioned in secondly, yes, of course, the A/C was on.

As for denigrating your suggestion, you admitted yourself that it is not appropriate for a baby. That is what makes your point invalid. And I didn't see many people agree with giving drugs to a 5 month old.

No but a few agreed with the suggestion of using it. Here's 1, wasn't too difficult to find...

One comment I will make on this subject:

In my experience, very young children adapt/adjust to changes in timezones much more easily than adults. So plan the journey to minimise jetlag effects of the parents rather than of the child.

+1 Phenergan (with approval from your family physician and pre-trip testing for any adverse affects as a small percentage of young children can react to Phenergan as a stimulant rather than the more common effect of an antihistamine to relax and induce sleep).

Post #17 was another.

How is using something that helps the child sleep not treating them like a person? Is the suggestion of using Children's Panadol equally as evil?

As Katie had mentioned (below, oops she wanted to use it as well) the substance isn't recommended for children of a young age. I acknowledged that and agreed (with what she said) that if you wanted to use it on a 5 month old talk to a GP first.

I tried to get our GP to recommend phenergan when we travelled to Europe with our 18mth old. He would not, and said, as chemists will, that phenergan is intended for children over 2 years. A chemist will not dispense phenergan to a child younger than two (and DOB is required on the label). There are ways around that, should anyone wish to have phenergan for younger kids.
Just be aware that this kind of medication is intended for older children, and seek advice from your doctor about using this medication with a 5 month old.

I'm not saying the techniques you've suggested are wrong. I'm saying that whilst there are some similarities between car and aircraft travel there are also plenty of differences. Perhaps another good one is that you don't share your car with a few hundred strangers. Also your cars interior is probably pretty familiar to your children whilst an aircraft probably isn't and that type of distraction makes it very difficult to settle some children.

Whether or not you stopped wasn't the point, I said you could. If it was to change a nappy or to deal with a child being sick you'd stop anywhere.

 

[medhead]

No but a few agreed with the suggestion of using it. Here's 1, wasn't too difficult to find...

And what was the key point of the words you quote

with approval from your family physician

That is not agreement to giving it to a 5 month old baby.

How is using something that helps the child sleep not treating them like a person? Is the suggestion of using Children's Panadol equally as evil?

I can't believe you even have to ask the question. talk about a total lack of credibility. What's the difference between I'll socialise with my child, try to comfort it, respond to it's needs and discomforts, feed it and make it feel safe and happy; or The plane has just taken off and there is a slight pressure change but I can't be bothered with dealing with this thing that is annoying me so I'l drug it and make it go to sleep so I don't have to do anything.

As for child's panadol, is that safe for babies?

Whether or not you stopped wasn't the point, I said you could. If it was to change a nappy or to deal with a child being sick you'd stop anywhere.

Whether or not I stopped is exactly the point, that is what makes the driving trips that I've done similar to flying. And we've changed nappies while moving (without stopping) and dealt with sickness. as I said that is actually harder in a car because a car doesn't have a charge area that you can get up and use. a car doesn't have a toilet to take a sick child into, in fact in a car all these things have to be done with the shild still restrained. But then you've raised fine details that aren't relevant.

Otherwise you've suggested trivial differences that are not even differences at all, (e.g. an aircraft may be unfamiliar, but then the view out the window of a car is constantly changing unlike the inside of an aircraft) in order to suggest that my input is irrelevant. but "your not saying i'm wrong"

Not sure how other people on the aircraft is even relevant, you certainly don't see hundreds of people at any one time. you mention something about germs, despite what you see in moves germs don't jump on to people and make them suddenly start to vomit.

 

[simongr]

As for child's panadol, is that safe for babies?

Baby panadol is - aimed at age 1 month to 24 months. It assists with reducing fevers - in fact babygr is having to have some at the moment...

 

[medhead]

Baby panadol is - aimed at age 1 month to 24 months. It assists with reducing fevers - in fact babygr is having to have some at the moment...

Indeed, and we used it extensively with our kids for the same sort of things.

 

[11sjw]

And what was the key point of the words you quote

with approval from your family physician

That is not agreement to giving it to a 5 month old baby.

As I mentioned earlier our experience was based on a near 2 yr old who was a near 3 year old the next time around.

I can't believe you even have to ask the question. talk about a total lack of credibility. What's the difference between I'll socialise with my child, try to comfort it, respond to it's needs and discomforts, feed it and make it feel safe and happy; or The plane has just taken off and there is a slight pressure change but I can't be bothered with dealing with this thing that is annoying me so I'l drug it and make it go to sleep so I don't have to do anything.

As for child's panadol, is that safe for babies?

Panadol comes in various types, you simply choose the appropriate age. It's really not that difficult.

I'll leave it to you to tell my wife that she wasn't comforting enough when our child slept for one of 14 hours of air travel more than once. The phenergan resulted in a few episodes of 6-7 hours of sleep during our travels. This meant that when she was awake, our daughter was settled enough to enjoy reading a book or completing a jigsaw with one of us. The bonus of getting some sleep was the adjustment to the various time zones was much easier.

Whether or not I stopped is exactly the point, that is what makes the driving trips that I've done similar to flying. And we've changed nappies while moving (without stopping) and dealt with sickness. as I said that is actually harder in a car because a car doesn't have a charge area that you can get up and use. a car doesn't have a toilet to take a sick child into, in fact in a car all these things have to be done with the shild still restrained. But then you've raised fine details that aren't relevant.

Otherwise you've suggested trivial differences that are not even differences at all, (e.g. an aircraft may be unfamiliar, but then the view out the window of a car is constantly changing unlike the inside of an aircraft) in order to suggest that my input is irrelevant. but "your not saying i'm wrong"

Not sure how other people on the aircraft is even relevant, you certainly don't see hundreds of people at any one time. you mention something about germs, despite what you see in moves germs don't jump on to people and make them suddenly start to vomit.

Do you even want to acknowledge that flying might have a much greater negative physiological impact on a person, especially an infant/toddler that can't get to sleep? When compared to "We wiped a butt and mopped up some spew without stopping" I know which one I consider to be more significant. You want me to acknowledge that your experiences in a car are more relevant than our experiences based on completing essentially the same trip around the world on two separate occasions in various aircraft and noticing how the phenergan facilitated our child being able to sleep the second time around? And you mention credibility?

If you can't understand how strange people are a curiosity to a young child and how that curiosity might prevent them from settling down to sleep then I'm flabbergasted. Our child falls asleep in the car all the time yet we could not get her to settle down in an aircraft until she reached the stage of pure exhaustion.

Familiarity being trivial, and you question my parenting? Please. Everyone inside the car is familiar to your child and they are comfortable with them. Familiarity and routine are the biggest comfort factors for just about any child. Yes the surrounds change in a car but the people inside them don't. An aircraft proved to be a very difficult place for our child to sleep due to her wanting to explore and interact with all the people nearby. We had dozens of books, stickers, a portable DVD player and because we were fortunate enough to be in J and we were able to lie down with her and rub her back without any luck. Hence the phenergan and some sleep. I don't think I can explain it anymore than I have here.

 

[Dave Noble]

Please ensure that any comments address the issues and do not attack other posters.

Some posts seem to be attacking other members. Please avoid this otherwise the thread may be closed and/or infractions being issued

Dave