taxis and credit cards

[medhead]

I use CC 95% of the time as it forces the money to be recorded somewhere, ie. Dodgy drivers can't just pocket the cash and cancel the meter, essentially ripping us off and the tax man.
Yes it is 10% more expensive, but I have piece of mind that these mostly corrupt drivers (Not all of them) will still have to pay tax and still have to pay the taxi company their respective fees and forces them to think that the public are aware of their rorts.

Once the meter is turned on it cannot be cancelled. I can't even understand the rort that you think is involved. But paying by credit card certainly does not force the driving to do anything they didn't have to do already, once they turned on the meter.

There are also a few possible driver arrangements. I'm not sure of the break down in popularity of each arrangement. The driver could very well be working on a flat fee basis where they hire the car for a certain period of time - 24 hours or even one week. So the driver might pay $2000 to use the car for a week. The owner gets the fee regardless of what the driver earns or how the driver is paid. The tax man does not get a look in at the meter records.

The other set of common arrangements involves a commission based system. With the driver getting a fixed percentage and expenses, fuel and oil, being either split or paid by either party. In this case, the total recorded by the meter is used to determine the payout. That's why when they start the meter they cannot just cancel it out. The only way around it is if the driver does cash jobs. But even that doesn't help much because the owner is going to know what is a normal take for any given shift and if the driver keeps coming in on the low side then they'll soon be looking for another car.

Remember also that all taxi drivers have to be registered with an ABN and all have to do their BAS.

Sorry to say all you're doing by paying with a card is costing yourself another 10%. It doesn't protect the owner or the taxman.

 

[Skyring]

The way drivers get paid differs according to the Local practice. A typical driver is a "baillee", that is, a worker who hires the tools of his trade. In this case a taxi.

When I was driving, I paid the owner half of what was on the meter, and he paid for the gas, maintenance, insurance, taxi company fees and so on. In other places, it might be a fixed amount per night, with some nights better than others. In such cases, the driver could actually lose money if it's a slow night.

Usually fares would be paid in a mixture of cash, credit cards and dockets or Cabcharge cards. The cash was easy enough, but cards and things were paid to the owner, who would pay me something if that was over 50% of the takings. Sometimes it was 100%, especially in a town like Canberra on a day shift, where so many government and corporate types have to use cards.

Cabcharge adds 10% on top, and none of that comes back to owner or driver. Sometimes an owner will have his own credit card system with lower fees, but that still won't process Cabcharge cards, and of course the driver sees none of this.

What's on the meter is what counts, at least in Canberra.

Often a driver will claim that the Cabcharge machine is broken. It isn't. If it is really broken, he's not allowed to be on the road at all, but more importantly if it were broken he'd have no way of collecting fares from corporate customers who have no cash or are unwilling to pay cash because of the hassle involved in getting a reimbursement.

It's "broken" because he needs money and doesn't want to wait a week or two for the owner to scrutinise the envelopes. The poor old driver has to eat, and he has to find something to pay for gas if the owner hasn't laid on a gas card.

Of course the meter may be stopped. It can't be cancelled unless the taxi has remained stationary all the time. So yes, there are going to be records for both meter and Cabcharge machine.

But I wouldn't count on them to force honesty into the driver. Yeeees, we're supposed to lodge BAS and income tax returns, but realistically, few drivers do them on time (or at all). The tax office isn't going to come checking, because the industry is a maze of owners and drivers, mostly foreign with weird schedules and surprisingly unavailable. Often they live in group houses full of surly foreigners who aren't happy at being woken and will claim the person being sought is out driving. Often they cannot be found at any address. The tax people can go after the owners, especially if they have many cabs and an office/workshop, but drivers are like the wind.

 

[sjd]

agree, i'd pay to see that!

But would you pay a 10% surcharge to see that?

 

[cmon0005]

Once the meter is turned on it cannot be cancelled. I can't even understand the rort that you think is involved. But paying by credit card certainly does not force the driving to do anything they didn't have to do already, once they turned on the meter.

Yes there is... I've seen it happen many times and it is mainly around extra's (tolls.etc.)

For example from Syd airport to north ryde, there are a few tolls along the way which I am aware of but I cannot for the life of me remember what each toll is and then calculate that in my head, often I would get to the end of the trip the driver would quickly clear the meter and not add the extras on the meter.
Then in his head does some mental arithmetic and some how the total toll amount was calculated, now the catch cry is despite the same route everytime, the total toll varies by alot one time its $9~ total others times its been $16, $19, $24 dollars, essentially they're pocketing that extra money based on people not knowing exactly what it should be. then they also try to charge the airport $3 twice, once on the meter and once when "calculating" the tolls. I used to be a regular traveller to sydney for work, multiple day trips a month, and it happened alot, either people have more time on their hands to calculate this or they're getting honest cabbies. But I know that on day trips I don't have time to sit there squalling with a cabbie for 15mins when I am meant to be in a meeting.
So all in all, lets say the real toll is only $7 for my trip, they're charging me upwards $8-12 more than the toll, not recording it on the meter as extras, plus sometimes the $3 airport charge twice (once on the meter and then once cheated by the cabbie by adding it on top of the tolls) grand total of almost $15 in their pocket.

Remember also that all taxi drivers have to be registered with an ABN and all have to do their BAS.

Yes they do a BAS based on what income they want to report, if its not on the meter or not against their ABN on the EFTPOS machine, ie in cash its just pocketed and never declared (again I'm sure there are alot that are honest but alot that aren't).

Sorry to say all you're doing by paying with a card is costing yourself another 10%.

As mentioned in my earlier post though I use card out of convenience more than anything and as most of my cab trips for work are in excess of $160 for a day trip I don't want to have to bother carrying large amounts of cash + its easier for reimbursement when done via card.

 

[cove]

I did get into a taxi and got him to stop at an ATM so I could pay with cash. Found I had left the apartment without my usual cash in my pocket.
No I would not ever pay $160 on a 10% surcharge. Cab charge is a bad joke and we don't want our staff to fall for it either. We reimburse cash dockets from staff expenses quickly back into their cash float. We have it so our staff have adequate cash floats so they can pay their own travelling costs like country motels,taxis and meals for the month.
10% is a waste that we avoid.

 

[medhead]

Well I'll date my driving time but the owner I drove for would use the cab charge dockets (yes paper dockets) to pay for fuel. Why? because they were in a taxi group that wasn't part if cabcharge. Certain servos accepting cabcharge was a neat way around that restriction. All gone now with electronic payment acceptance.

Another reason the cabcharge machine is broken is because they don't have a login or they've been cut off. Very annoying to get hit with that BS.

Yes there is... I've seen it happen many times and it is mainly around extra's (tolls.etc.)

For example from Syd airport to north ryde, there are a few tolls along the way which I am aware of but I cannot for the life of me remember what each toll is and then calculate that in my head, often I would get to the end of the trip the driver would quickly clear the meter and not add the extras on the meter.
Then in his head does some mental arithmetic and some how the total toll amount was calculated, now the catch cry is despite the same route everytime, the total toll varies by alot one time its $9~ total others times its been $16, $19, $24 dollars, essentially they're pocketing that extra money based on people not knowing exactly what it should be. then they also try to charge the airport $3 twice, once on the meter and once when "calculating" the tolls. I used to be a regular traveller to sydney for work, multiple day trips a month, and it happened alot, either people have more time on their hands to calculate this or they're getting honest cabbies. But I know that on day trips I don't have time to sit there squalling with a cabbie for 15mins when I am meant to be in a meeting.
So all in all, lets say the real toll is only $7 for my trip, they're charging me upwards $8-12 more than the toll, not recording it on the meter as extras, plus sometimes the $3 airport charge twice (once on the meter and then once cheated by the cabbie by adding it on top of the tolls) grand total of almost $15 in their pocket.

Which has nothing to do with the meter or ripping off the owner or the tax office. And using a card does not force them to not do it.

Other than that I note that The post I quoted only mentioned one reason for using a card - to keep the driver honest.

 

[DeKa]

I've found it common for taxis to use hand held EFTPOS machines and ignore the Cab Charge unit mounted in the car. In fact I think that way is more common than using the official cab charge ones. Of course they still add 10%.

The cab drivers make a cut on those "non cabcharge" machines - in the order of 2-4%
http://www.livetaxiepay.com.au/pages/faqs.aspx#q1

The cab drivers tend to encourage you to pay by card when they have one I notice.

 

[moa999]

The 10% fee was reasonable in the days of paper dockets with lots of fraud and processing.
It was still probably reasonable when Cabcharge over time introduced electronic machines, that at the time where $$$s each and had expensive data connections (pre 3G if I remember correctly)

Today however there is no excuse...
As can be seen by the non-Cabcharge machines rebating up to 4% direct to the driver (for what its worth Cabcharge rebates a %ge to the networks as well).
I'm sure Cabcharge could pay drivers direct, or cut the fee to say 5-6%, but then the networks will be short of money, so driver charges, which will flow to fares will have to go up.

In any event, I do think a %ge fee is farer than the flat $7/8 charge on domestic tickets.

 

[ferni]

I use :
Perth. Quicksilver. 1 300 570 747
Melbourne. Bill. 0419 892349
Sydney. Chris. 0412 818515

All are very good.

For MrToads wild ride I go for the sub continent drivers.

Interesting you use Bill as well... as far as I know he mainly does 2 corporate customers with the company I work for being one, and the other I doubt you work for... so you must be an old customer

 

[cove]

Chris in Sydney and Bill in Melbourne are friends who get together. They are both really nice. I went to the Sydney airport with Chris yesterday. Yes I received a $500 age rebate on my latest tax assessment so the Tax Department think I am "old". I am a land development shareholder....ferni do you work with Paul ?

 

[Warks]

I stopped using taxis to the airport a few years ago when tolls and fees and other "plus plus" meant my $80 fare had become close to $120 in a very short space of time. If you live in north west Sydney you pay more tolls than anyone. Luckily I don't need to use the M7 as well. Tolls from where I live (Pennant Hills area) are
Airport bound:
M2: $4.95
LCT (Lane Cove Tunnel): $3
SHT (Sydney Harbour Tunnel): $4 (variable)

Home bound:
Eastern Distributor: $6
LCT: $3
M2: $4.95

Making a grand total of $25.90 for a bit more than a 60km round trip. Luckily the Bridge and Harbour tunnel are free northbound and the ED is free soutbound.

So add these onto the fare plus the MacBank tax at the airport and then the GST again and then the Cabcharge gouge plus GST AGAIN and you get an idea of why I don't catch taxis.

People say the train is too expensive. I think it's okay.

To calculate road tolls in Sydney visit:
Sydney Motorways

You can find even more expensive trips from out at Quakers Hill!

 

[cmon0005]

Case in point took a cab from Syd airport this morning to George St for a day trip.
Got in the cab meter started at the corner of my eye I could see him adding the airport charge on the meter, got to George st, he then added the Eastern distributor toll on the meter whilst I was getting my card out. he quickly then 'totaled' the meter and switched it to Vacant.
He then got his private EFTPOS Live machine out typed in the total from the meter from before he cleared it, then started to say out loud ""$6 for tolls, $3.50 for airport charge then added that on as extras on his little eftpos machine, then the 10% service charge.
I just let the transaction go through so I could keep the receipt as evidence, once the payment went through I confronted him with the fact that I saw him adding the extras on the meter when I wasn't looking and on the eftpos machine (not the cabcharge one).
He was a bit gobsmacked that I noticed and just made up an excuse that he forgot that he added it to the meter and the eftpos machine and gave me the difference back in coins.
He wanted the receipt back, but I said no I am keeping it along with his taxi driver ID number, when I get a chance I'll complain but I don't expect to hear back from it.
Anyone that says it doesn't happen has rocks in their head, maybe they target people wearing suits or something I don't know... either that or others are just ignorant or lucky!

:mrgreen:

 

[cove]

I don't wear a suit but I prefer to use a driver rather than have a chance at a Mr Toads Wild Ride. I think of it as a bit of personal safety. I have been hit by a truck once and my nearest miss was in a Sydney taxi and my work colleague still talks about it. 25mm to spare would be overstating the near miss.

 

[Mal]

Seems like Victoria might order Cabcharge to drop CC fee to 5%

Cabcharge shares down on cut to fees | The Courier-Mail

The government supports ordering Cabcharge to lower the eftpos fee from 10 per cent to five per cent of the fare.

Now ... Will it happen? Hmm.

And interesting arrogance from the Cabcharge CEO: http://www.smh.com.au/business/victoria-slashes-cabcharge-fee-in-half-20130528-2n8mf.html

The recommendation prompted Cabcharge's founder and CEO Reg Kermode to say: "Bugger it, if that's what you want, you can all go back to cash."

 

[TheInsider]

Seems like Victoria might order Cabcharge to drop CC fee to 5%

Cabcharge shares down on cut to fees | The Courier-Mail


Now ... Will it happen? Hmm.

And set 'maximum' rates, so a flat fee to the airport.

 

[tuapekastar]

Seems like Victoria might order Cabcharge to drop CC fee to 5%

Cabcharge shares down on cut to fees | The Courier-Mail


Now ... Will it happen? Hmm.

And interesting arrogance from the Cabcharge CEO: Victoria slashes Cabcharge fee in half

No wonder he's pissed off. Sitting on a rip-off goldmine! I certainly hope the recommendation is enforced.

 

[muppet]

Seems like Victoria might order Cabcharge to drop CC fee to 5%

Cabcharge shares down on cut to fees | The Courier-Mail


Now ... Will it happen? Hmm.

And interesting arrogance from the Cabcharge CEO: Victoria slashes Cabcharge fee in half

Good luck to "Reg" - I note many cabbies process the card through some other machine anyway.

 

[JohnK]

People say the train is too expensive. I think it's okay.

I guess it is relative to where you live and in your situation the train is quite OK.

For someone like me out of 3 choices you can see which is the most feasible

- Bus, walk ~10 mins and cost ~$4.50
- Train, walk ~7 mins and change at Sydenham and then change at Wolli Creek for airport line or go all the way to Central and change for airport line and cost ~$16.70
- Taxi, cost ~$35-40

 

[Skyring]

I don't wear a suit but I prefer to use a driver rather than have a chance at a Mr Toads Wild Ride. I think of it as a bit of personal safety. I have been hit by a truck once and my nearest miss was in a Sydney taxi and my work colleague still talks about it. 25mm to spare would be overstating the near miss.

I don't know the circumstances, but an experienced cabbie is always going to be a better city driver than just about anyone else. You do twelve hour shifts five or six days a week, fifty weeks a year, you get a lot of driving in.

I've had passengers gasp at near misses when I've been alert and dealt with the sudden emergency and then continued driving without comment. If you know what you are doing, your car is just an extension of your body and you can drive at a higher level than most. It's like any activity where a professional puts in long hours of regular practice - they get good at it.

 

[cove]

Unfortunately there has been an inundation of the driver ranks with folks from the sub continent who are on their mobile phones constantly instead of concentrating. There are some who got their licence out of a Weeties packet and I feel certain that a particular un-named State to the north of you gave out licences that should not have ever issued.
Meanwhile the Cabcharge share price has been affected by short sellers but no it isn't me!

Taxi drivers from anywhere are fine provided they stay off their mobiles and concentrate on the job at hand.